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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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 Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | In general I don't have any problem with RAW as is (R&E p. 33-34): |
Nor do I.
Though not a strict requirement, in our games players typically consult the GM about what skills to increase for several reasons: (i) does the GM agree it is reasonable or in character to increase this skill, (ii) does the GM think the skill will be useful in play in the short term (or long term) future of the campaign, and (iii) are there other skills the GM thinks the PC might increase instead of this skill. |
We also consult the GM, who off course has a full veto right.
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I for one love training time. Prevents "ping" you just got better" moments. |
Ah, but the 'ping' factor is a fun part of games... We have had them in WFRP and SW alike. Usually theres a player saving up for some expensive advance that is 'forced' to 'ping' a skill or attribute....generally to the amusement of the other players..
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Blue Glowie
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Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I've just never understood where this training time is supposed to come from. How do you reconcile it with trying to tell a fluid, fun, cinematic story? If it's between adventures, why not just spend CPs between adventures and leave it at that? If it's understood that there's a bit of time between things and during hyperspace travel, you don't really need to think of it as a "ping" effect. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10402
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | In general I don't have any problem with RAW as is (R&E p. 33-34): |
Nor do I.
Though not a strict requirement, in our games players typically consult the GM about what skills to increase for several reasons: (i) does the GM agree it is reasonable or in character to increase this skill, (ii) does the GM think the skill will be useful in play in the short term (or long term) future of the campaign, and (iii) are there other skills the GM thinks the PC might increase instead of this skill. |
We also consult the GM, who off course has a full veto right. |
All advancements in my game must be approved by me. First of all, I verify that the PC did successfully use the skill in the adventure. If I can't remember at the moment then they must refresh my memory of the instance. And I do provide helpful advice and suggestions along the way. Most players are wise enough to heed my suggestions, but like I said, character developement is a two-way conversation. I also want to incorporate as much of what the players want their characters to do as possible in the campaigns.
And of course I reserve full veto rights as GM, but I rarely have to use them. I do consider the difficulty level they suceeded at vs. what level the skill is raising to. If they want to raise their computer programming to 6D but they only suceeded at a very easy task, I may tell them that experience alone doesn't help them. It's got to make some amount of sense.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I for one love training time. Prevents "ping" you just got better" moments. |
Ah, but the 'ping' factor is a fun part of games... We have had them in WFRP and SW alike. Usually theres a player saving up for some expensive advance that is 'forced' to 'ping' a skill or attribute....generally to the amusement of the other players.. |
Maybe to some, but to me it is too PC gammy..
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I for one love training time. Prevents "ping" you just got better" moments. |
Ah, but the 'ping' factor is a fun part of games... We have had them in WFRP and SW alike. Usually theres a player saving up for some expensive advance that is 'forced' to 'ping' a skill or attribute....generally to the amusement of the other players.. |
Maybe to some, but to me it is too PC gammy.. |
Actually, in reality, its the reverse. PCs often end up raising skills they didnt intended, resulting in less gamy-ness and actually more like real life..
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | ...but like I said, character developement is a two-way conversation. I also want to incorporate as much of what the players want their characters to do as possible in the campaigns. |
It's a two-way conversation indeed!
The player "owns" their character, but the GM provides useful balance and a outside perspective and ultimately the GM has to be able to fit the PC into the ongoing narrative or script. The GM "owns" the campaign, but the players are participants who help create the narrative and they must also enjoy the experience or they will not continue to participate. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Exactly. Players should be considered co-creators of the end result: a story. I like to think of roleplaying in terms of movie or TV series production.
As the GM, I am the Executive Producer, Director, primary Story Writer, Screenplay Co-Writer and Supporting Actor
The Players are the Starring Actors, Co-Producers, Story Co-Writers, Screenplay Co-Writers (of their PC's own dialogue). I also give a credit of Co-Executive Producer to any player who provides the gaming location or food for the game session. 
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Bren
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Exactly. Players should be considered co-creators of the end result: a story. I like to think of roleplaying in terms of movie or TV series production... |
Agreed. We had one scenario where the PCs interacted briefly with Mon Mothma and heard her give a speech. One player wrote out the speech and then delivered it in character as Mon Mothma. The player did a great job and it made the scene much more meaningful to the characters. Definite co-writer and supporting actor credit there. 8) |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: |
Actually, in reality, its the reverse. PCs often end up raising skills they didnt intended, resulting in less gamy-ness and actually more like real life.. |
I have yet to see that..
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: |
Actually, in reality, its the reverse. PCs often end up raising skills they didnt intended, resulting in less gamy-ness and actually more like real life.. |
I have yet to see that.. |
Off course it's different for different kind of player groups. In our group it's like that all the time. The player will save xp or cp to raise that one skill to glorious heights. Then something will happen that forces the player to spend points in some other random useful skill or attribute. Like willpower, astrogation or first aid. Either to save himself or another player.
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | | Off course it's different for different kind of player groups. In our group it's like that all the time. The player will save xp or cp to raise that one skill to glorious heights. Then something will happen that forces the player to spend points in some other random useful skill or attribute. Like willpower, astrogation or first aid. Either to save himself or another player. |
My experience is also somewhat similar. I find many players, myself included, are highly influenced by what happened in the most recent scenarios when selecting what skills to increase. To compensate I usually write up a plan for what skills my PC intends to increase just so I don't lose the long term view of character development based solely on what happened in the moment. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | To compensate I usually write up a plan for what skills my PC intends to increase just so I don't lose the long term view of character development based solely on what happened in the moment. |
I have a chart like that for my current character.
Each time i make a increase, i line out that part..
EG
DEX:
Melee (S) vibro dagger 9d+2 to 10d
Melee (S) vibro dagger 10d to 10d+1
Melee (S) vibro dagger 10d+1 to 10d+2
Running 4d+1 to 4d+2
KNOW: Alien species learn
Alien species 2d+1 to 2d+2
and so on..
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | I have a chart like that for my current character.
Each time i make a increase, i line out that part.. |
Mine typically lists the skills that I intend to increase, but in a related way. So for a gunfighter character I might have:
Increase Blaster and Dodge up to 8D, then specialize in Heavy Blaster Pistol from then on. Keep Brawling parry at least 1D lower than dodge. Increase Running to 5D.
Keep Intimidation 2D lower than his base blaster skill. Increase tactics to 4D.
Increase Con to 5D, Search to 6D, Sneak to 5D.
Increase Starship gunnery to 4D.
Increase Brawling attack to 6D and Stamina and Swimming (maybe the PC like swimming) to 4D.
Increase First Aid to 4D, Security to 6D.
This would show the ending point for all the key skills for that character. And I tend to move most skills up in parallel. Once most or all of the skills reach this ending level, I reassess the character. He may change his focus, choose to retire, or set a new ending state goal for a set of skills. It lets me think about where I want the character to end up and get him there in a coherent fashion that maintains a balance between his best and next best skills.
The idea is clear in practice, but I am not sure if I have explained it well. When I Gm, I've walked a few players thru this for their characters. Some like it, some not so much. I think it is too planned and intentional for some players. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Why not just write down 'I wanna be kickass with my blaster'?
Seems easier.. 
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