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Gamer
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 125
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 Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: |
I could swear i saw one rule which had it if you eared a DSP, any cyber points you had added to that. So if you had 3 Cyber points and used a force power that garnered you a DSP, you would actually earn 4.
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You did see a rule like that in Galadiniums fantastic technology, it did away with all the roll the cyberpoint dice to see if it affects your connection to the force nonsense and made it to where a certain number of cyberpoints would give you extra darkside points instead.
The whole cyberpoints thing never made any sense to me and seemed more like people were cramming in the cyberpsychosis rules from other games into starwars and adding that nonesense just to add some kind of game balance.
Nothing in Star Wars outside those cyberpoints rules can I recall mention of any problems with the force by any force user with cybernetics.
To me If cybernetics interfered with the force then the shard force users should have a major issues with the droid body they are attached to but they don't. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Gamer wrote: | | garhkal wrote: |
I could swear i saw one rule which had it if you eared a DSP, any cyber points you had added to that. So if you had 3 Cyber points and used a force power that garnered you a DSP, you would actually earn 4.
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You did see a rule like that in Galadiniums fantastic technology, it did away with all the roll the cyberpoint dice to see if it affects your connection to the force nonsense and made it to where a certain number of cyberpoints would give you extra darkside points instead.
The whole cyberpoints thing never made any sense to me and seemed more like people were cramming in the cyberpsychosis rules from other games into starwars and adding that nonesense just to add some kind of game balance.
Nothing in Star Wars outside those cyberpoints rules can I recall mention of any problems with the force by any force user with cybernetics.
To me If cybernetics interfered with the force then the shard force users should have a major issues with the droid body they are attached to but they don't. |
As mentioned above I give 1/2 DSP per CP to characters who get cyber 'upgrades'. I increase difficulties in force use for non-darkside force usiers. The penalties for 'normal' cybernetic replacements (hands, arms, etc with no enhancements) can be countered by spending a force point per replacement. This symbolizes the character having learned to live with a machine part in his body and learnt to compensate.
Another idea is to switch the '1/2 dsp per cp' rule for a rule where you roll againt increasingly more difficult Willpower tests to resist the Dark Side. Say that you start at Moderate for the first two CPs, which increases to Diffcult for the next 2, etc. This way a strong mind/will can partially resist the influence on the mind of becoming more and more machine. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10447
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil. |
I agree with you guys. There is definitely a strong precedent in the original trilogy that cybernetics lead to Dark Side. Luke getting a new hand was just a way of upping the ante (drama), showing that he could go the path of Vader and lose his humanity (compasion).
| Gamer wrote: | | Nothing in Star Wars outside those cyberpoints rules can I recall mention of any problems with the force by any force user with cybernetics. |
It may not be clear in the movies and so debatable among fans, but Lucas stated that Anakin's potential in the Force (light or dark) was reduced by his cybernetics. He states that is why classic Vader is not nearly the bad-@ss that Anakin was. As he was the Chosen One he definitely still had a high Force ability, but it is a fraction of what it would have been if he hadn't become a cyborg. And PCs in our game aren't Anakin and thus have an even lesser Force potential.
| Gamer wrote: | | To me If cybernetics interfered with the force then the shard force users should have a major issues with the droid body they are attached to but they don't. |
That is exactly why Shards should not be allowed to be Force users at all. IMO the EU author who thought those up blew it (but he wasn't the first one to do that by far). I think Shards using droid bodies is such a cool idea, so I do allow them to be PCs and even let them have Force points to be balanced with the other PCs. (I don't allow strait droid PCs because I don't think any droid, not even R2-D2, should have FPs. CPs yeah, but FPs no). But one of my Shard rules is they simply can't be Force-users. As non-organic crystaline lifeforms, it's a miracle Shard are even alive first place! Giving Shards FPs is as far as I want to 'hand wave' them into my world. (If you really want to play a Force user, there are a zillion other races to choose from.)
And Shards not being allowed to be Force-users does have a precedent in the prequel trilogy, because midi-chlorians are organic life forms like all the races the movies show to be Force-users, while Shards are not organic. (Please don't hate on me for using the "m" word, guys. It's relevant to the discussion).
The movies are supposed to be part of the EU continuity, so if you are citing EU precedents then you must include the movies. (And when I say "movies" I also include things that Lucas says about his movies.) And you must also realize that the EU often contradicts both the movies and itself. For that reason the EU is a buffet that I can pick and choose but disregard the rest. I disregard things that are contradictory to things I have already chosen to include on my plate.
Ultimately, as a GM you can allow whatever you want to be in your Star Wars galaxy whether or not there are precedents for it in the EU or the movies or not. YOU are the master of your own Star Wars universe. You can ignore Lucas, a movie or three as many of you do. You do whatever you want.
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think Vader lost any of his ability to use the force from cybernetics. I do think that he lost a lot of his physical capabilities because of the grievous wounds he suffered at the hands of Obi Wan. He was definitely not as quick or dexterous as he was before he lost both of his arms and legs.
I think the dark side stigma with cybernetics comes from the fact that when you start cutting away at yourself and replacing it with machine, you don't feel the same way as you do when you feel with skin. What I mean is that your nerve endings are more connected to skin than they could ever be to a piece of hardware. Even if you add skin to it and have reflexive pulses being sent, it's still only synthetic. And, when a person removes parts of them self to improve upon their own physical capabilities, it's more of a power than about necessity. It takes a certain type of person to do something like that to their own body. |
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | I don't think Vader lost any of his ability to use the force from cybernetics. I do think that he lost a lot of his physical capabilities because of the grievous wounds he suffered at the hands of Obi Wan. He was definitely not as quick or dexterous as he was before he lost both of his arms and legs.
I think the dark side stigma with cybernetics comes from the fact that when you start cutting away at yourself and replacing it with machine, you don't feel the same way as you do when you feel with skin. What I mean is that your nerve endings are more connected to skin than they could ever be to a piece of hardware. Even if you add skin to it and have reflexive pulses being sent, it's still only synthetic. And, when a person removes parts of them self to improve upon their own physical capabilities, it's more of a power than about necessity. It takes a certain type of person to do something like that to their own body. |
I'm with you on this. But I don't see the reason as a nerve-something-thingy. Only power hungry or unstable people would willingly exchange there body parts for cybernetics. Aside from that I would guess that being more machine that man, would make you feel detached from the rest of normal humanity. Hence DARKSIDE!
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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If I wasn't broke (and not stupid), I'd ask you all for some cool cybernetics besides a hand replacement.
It's 3 IRL days to our session and I'll try to fix my hand with ordinary surgery, but you never know  . I may have one cool shiny new hand by the end of the night, if I somehow manage to scrape money or favors to get it done.
May the force be with me 
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Jame Rowe
Ensign
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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Location: North of Boston MA USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Jedi with cybernetics? |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | | So you never know if I have to go for a cybernetic replacement. Any Jedi out there with cybernetics? How do you play your Jedi once you part machine? |
Yes. Anakin Skywalker. Luke Skywalker. |
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Random Numbers
Commander
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Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Jedi with cybernetics? |
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| Jame Rowe wrote: | | Random Numbers wrote: | | So you never know if I have to go for a cybernetic replacement. Any Jedi out there with cybernetics? How do you play your Jedi once you part machine? |
Yes. Anakin Skywalker. Luke Skywalker. |
It was more of a personal question if anyone played a Jedi with cybernetics. Oh and I got my operation and it was successful. But it cost my benefactor a ton of credits
A few moments later I was nearly sliced to pieces by an overzealous bounty hunter droid (I think).
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Anakin
Lieutenant Commander
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Jedi with cybernetics? |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | I recently put my hand through a force/disruptor field and gave myself a mortally wounded hand. My friendly game master is going to let me try for surgery to get it working at 100%. But with surgery there is alwasy a risk of screwing up.
So you never know if I have to go for a cybernetic replacement. Any Jedi out there with cybernetics? How do you play your Jedi once you part machine? |
-Luminous beings are we. Not his crude matter.
Yoda
In other words, it should make no difference for the force.
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Random Numbers
Commander
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Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:35 am Post subject: |
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It's obviously the lower midi-chlorisomething count that hinders the force. By cutting way flesh the midi-chlorisomething also goes.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:43 am Post subject: |
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It didn't seem to hinder luke or vader..
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Bren
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | It didn't seem to hinder luke or vader.. |
How could we tell whether or not it hindered them. Vader is the same power level throughout the original three films, Luke increases in power througout. If Luke increased slower than he otherwise would have after losing his hand, how could we tell? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | It didn't seem to hinder luke or vader.. |
In the ROTS film novel, when Vader was first in the suit, it described how his power had been reduced, as though he could still remember what it felt like to have that connection to the Force, but what he experienced now was only a pale shadow of it.
With my alternate Force Sensitive rules, treating the Force as an attribute with C / S / A as skills under it, I use the Cyber-Point rules and count them as pips subtracted from the base Force Sensitive attribute. For example, if Anakin was Force Sensitive at 5D, he'd lose 1D+1 from that attribute just for having all four limbs replaced, so he would be down to 3D+2. Because the cybernetics affected his base attribute, his skill level in his Force skills would also be cut by 1D+1.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
It may not be clear in the movies and so debatable among fans, but Lucas stated that Anakin's potential in the Force (light or dark) was reduced by his cybernetics. He states that is why classic Vader is not nearly the bad-@ss that Anakin was. |
So why would the original Darth Vader so clearly have cleaned Anakin's clock?
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Esoomian
High Admiral
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Well he knows all of Anakin's moves and he has a few decades of experience on him. 
Even if Anakin has more force skills Vader should have higher skill levels.
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