Jedi during the Rebellion?

[K_Feldspar]

Here I usually make a distinction between force user and Jedi. I only use the original three movies as canon, though. Yoda clearly tells Luke that, "When gone am I, last of the Jedi will you be." So while there may be people who are well endowed with force powers there is only one trained in the fashion of the old Jedi Order.

That's also a good point of Kenobi being their only hope. I think, though, that the Princess had not intended to go to Tatooine, but was caught there instead. So she hid the plans with the driods, and sent them on their way. I think he was their only because Leia was captured over Tatooine coincidentally. Read 'coicidentally' as guided by the force perhaps.

[TheFamousTommyZ]

[Lord Aramus]

Here is my take on the subject.

(George Lucas would love this statement )

Using Episodes I-III as official canon is dangerous, because alot of the material presented in it is flat-out contradictory to the pre-existing materials that we have been using in our games for years.

For example: Dreadnaughts and Z-95 headhunters. since the late 80's these have been presented to us as the mainstays of the clonewars. The clone Spaati Cyliders were supposedly on MT. Tantis (The thrawn trilogy) and Leia remembered her mother (episode VI)

I give Episode III credit for the all at once betrayal of the Jedi, I have been wondering for years how Vader was able to off them all by himself. (I assumed he kept blowing them up on starships where they were vulnerable)

But even if we assume that Eps I-III are canon and the books, comics and games are not, we can still be reasonably sure that Jedi, if still in existance during the rebellion are either VERY well hidden or long dead.

It has been said that Yoda managed to remain hidden from The Emperor's detection by hanging out on Dagobah, near the site of a dark sith's death (wouldn't it have made more sense if this is where Dooku or Greivous had been destroyed?) And Obe Wan spent those many years on Tatoonie living a low power lifestyle as to not draw attention to himself. So it is easy to assume from this that making a big show of your jedi powers is a good way to gain the Emperor's and Vaders unwanted attention. In other words, he didn't have to find them to slay them.. they gave themselves away.

And vader had 18 years to destroy the jedi between ep III and ep IV. Not looking too good for jedi survival.

WEG:SW Jedi's

This, I think, is far too common of a player class, and as a result, I have ALWAYS made my players work for it if they wish to become jedi. Unless in the presence of a teacher, the CP costs for upping jedi skills is x3 what it would normally be in my games, and jedi powers must be learned or discovered in game. This keeps the party relatively even in capabilities, and helps to alleviate the "my tramp freighter captain runs as soon as he sees the enemy" syndrome.

I love bringing in old clone wars jedi of my own design, and also sithlord wannabies. an aspiring sith lord can be an interesting plot hook during the rebellion, because it'll attract not only the attention of the rebels and the players, but it also is SURE to attract lord vader and the emperor, to recruit/destroy another potential threat to their empire.

And as a final warning.. remember, YOU are the GM, you get to tell the players how prolific everything is. if it doesn't make sense to have a party of jedi adepts, don't allow it.
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[TheFamousTommyZ]

Well, Force Sensitives obviously didn't stop sprouting up after the Jedi massacre...and I'm sure there were a few Jedi who heard what happened, shut the lightsaber off, and went into as much hiding as possible (thus setting them up for perfect NPC Jedi instructors later, as they're not dead and could look to train a student for the purpose of making up for walking away)...plus, factor in holocrons perhaps floating around to teach potential Jedi...

And from the time Episode Four is about to begin, Vader is AWFULLY busy...so even if The Emperor is spotting Force activity in the galaxy, vader's usually not availiable to go hunt them down at that point, as Skywalker and Obi-Wan are just about to help kick the Rebellion into high gear.

Of course, a group of young padawans are just ASKING for trouble...but heck, that's half the fun of Star Wars.

[Chandra Mindarass]

Looking at the galactic map, it's hard to accidentally end up on Tatooine and I think I read somwhere, that Leia was actually sent there, because someone (Bail Organa?) believed that Kenobi would be the only person able to get the plans to Alderaan and the Imperial Senate, which was by the time of Episode IV struggling against the Emperor, which is why he disbanded it.

(Now let me get a mile off-topic.)

This might be from so-called Expanded Universe sources, which I don't EVER take as canon. There are a lot of contradictions with earlier novels, games and miscellaneous background infos. There is licensed work, that doesn't fit into the SW-universe in my opinion and while I love Nar Shaddaa as a campaign setting, I wouldn't be surprised, if the TV series comes out and the Huttese homeworld has a different name and there is no talk of Nar Shaddaa AT ALL. Stuff like the Yuzhan Vong or cloned emperors don't have much SW-feel to me either and I doubt if I would include them into one of my campaigns.

The birth scenes in Ep III are a pain in the exhaust shaft. There is the problem, that Leia claims to have known her mother, which you could explain with force stuff and the desire to know her grabbing some images and vague feelings from the past, but I think they reveal her identity WAAAAYYYY to soon! I think finding out about Leia being Luke's sister so close to the end of the sga, is one of the biggest surprises of the original trilogy, this is just given away now. Of course we all know it already, but if I was some 6-year-old I'd start watching Star Wars with Episode I, no?
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[Chandra Mindarass]

[Phalanks Balas]

Leïa say your are your only hope or something like that to Obiwan... Maybe it's just because she don't know other skilled jedi! Yoda is still alive, other jedis may be hidden in the galaxy. If Yoda can hide himself from the Emperor, other Jedi can too.
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[KageRyu]

Lots of statements both ways on this topic, some good, some bad. So let me try to shed some light in your favor. I will make statements that can be held as Truth, depending on your point of view, even just using the orriginal trilogy as cannon. I agree with an earlier post that using Episodes I-III as cannon is dangerous, not so much because it contradicts things established as Cannon in the game, but more importantly because it contradicts things said, done, and established in the orriginal trilogy, hence the re-edited and releases of the Special Editions and all later releases. Some of what I am about to say is based on many statements made by Lucas in various TV, Magazine, and other interviews in the 80's as well as behind the scenes documentaries, character Bios, and products, all endorsed or liscensed by Lucas:

We know that in the time of episode IV-VI both the Rebellion & and The Empire firmly believe the Jedi are extinct, "Their light has gone out of the galaxy." The key here is believe. There may vary well be Jedi in hiding, avoiding coming out to join the conflict due to the risks involved, and probably because they have seen to many friends killed. Such Jedi would surely be careful not to use the force for fear of creating a disturbance that might be felt (feeling such disturbances depends on the person actively looking, the strength of the disturbance, and the distance, as well as a lot of other things). Keep in mind that Palpatine, though powerful, had several things at his disadvantage: He was maintaining control and coercion over an entire empire (how many penalty dice to influence a few billion billion people), now he may not of been doing it all at once, but you can bet force use was involved (hence why, despite imperial tyranny, the core systems were relatively peaceful), 2) and most important, he was arrogant! It is very likely that with Jedi getting nearly impossible to find because they were going to ground, not fighting back, what have you, that Palpatine assumed he'd won, and exterminated the Jedi, and simply stopped looking. This also goes for Yoda, Obi-Won, and the rebellion...with the Jedi in hiding, it would be asumed by those three parties they had been killed in the purge. Yoda being protected by a darkside nexus was speculation from a novel, but even if that was true, what shielded Obi-Won? He was simply in hidding, and keeping his force powers unused. Surely other Jedi could do similar.

In game terms, the skill level of the Jedi would probably effect the tremors he created in the force, and thus how easily he could be tracked. But also, Jedi with Higher Skill can more easily block the sensing abilities of other Jedi...so it's a conundrum. A good rule of thumb for rogue and oucast Jedi's is this: Apprentice and low level knights errant would have skills merely in the 3D or 4D range, no higher. These are low enough to not pose and imediate threat to the empire, and might be low enough to remain undetected unless another Jedi is in close proximity (how close depends on the Jedi, Vader could probably pick them up on an active search if he were in the star system). A true Jedi Knight has skills ranging from the 5D+ range, with 7D generally being considered a master, this would definately be felt by another Jedi in the imediate area without nescessarily an active search, unless the Jedi were shielding his force powers, and would definately be detectable on an active search. A powerful Jedi Master/Sith Lord such as those on the council would have skills of 8D or higher, with many notable characters posessing 13-15D, these pose the greatest threat to the empire, and would be actively hunted. Such high skills as above 10D would generate tremors in the force noticable by a Jedi doing an active search several systems away, and unless the Jedi actively tries to shield his powers, would stand out like a beacon.
Keep in mind too, that the Empire only has 1 Dark Jedi powerful enough to seek out and destroy the Jedi, Lord Vader. Often times Vader is pre-ocupied with other tasks that threaten the empire (tracking down the pesky Death Star Plans, etc...). Also Keep in mind that the galaxy is enourmously vast, a thousand thousand worlds. So, more than likely, if the surviving Jedi went into hiding, the Empire would start having to narrow it's hunt down to systems or areas where things like Jedi-like activity seems likely, such as areas of strong rebel resistance, or those pesky stolen Death Star plans, because surely a Jedi could organize and accomplish such feats, who else could cause a wrinkle in Palpatines plan when he has the Dark Side with him? Must be Jedi (that arrogance of Palpatine I mentioned). I do not think Vader was hunting down the rebellion, per se, but was following the strongest rebellion leads in the hopes of hunting down remaining Jedi. Surely Palpatine and Vader both felt the tremor in the force when Luke used the force to destroy the Death Star, and it is clear from Episode V that Palpatine and Vader both are not seeking just any rebels, but the particular band Luke is most likely to be found with (ever wonder how Vader imediately knew it was Hoth? Perhaps in a vision of farseeing he saw the frozen wastes with Luke, but did not know what system it was...then when his captain has a probe droids report on scanner showing the generators in the ice..."That's the system!").

Basically, the bottom line is, it is YOUR game universe you are running. If you wish to have the players meet a force user, or be exposed, then do it. There are an infinite number of possible ways to explain how and why, but it is not nescessary. If a player argues and demands to know how the Jedi survived the purge, he is asking for information his character does not have...and asking the Jedi impolitely will simply make the Jedi less likely to help the characters. Always keep in mind what Kennobi said, "Many of the truths we cling to are only true from a certain point of view."

[Argamoth]

Well, there was that Mara Jade character that was a Dark Jedi. The Emperor probably knew that there were still Jedi out there, along with force-sensitive people out there. So the Empire was probably still keeping an eye out.

Now, Vader could detect Obi-Wan after he arrived on the DeathStar. Chances are he could have sensed other Jedi of similar power (unless he was familiar with Obi's presence enough for that to be the case.) But the galaxy is huge. Jedi lower power and who make no tremors could be hiding almost anywhere.

[TheFamousTommyZ]

One would HAVE to argue proximity as well. Vader sensed Obi-Wan *on* the Death Star...an artificial construct filled with (likely) non-Force Sensitives...frankly, Luke and Obi-Wan should have stood out like beacons. It's not like he said to Tarkin "My old Master is moving on Tattoine."...in fact, he didn't seem to sense Obi-Wan when he was right over him (when capturing Leia). So, taking that into context, it seems pretty feasible to me that Jedi keeping a low profile could have stayed hidden from Vader and The Emperor.

[Argamoth]

ObiWan also was proably more tremorful on the DeathStar, sneaking around Troopers and whatnot.

[KageRyu]

Yes, Vader did sense Obi-won on the Death Star, but as I mentioned it has a lot to do with Proximity and force use. On the Death Star, we know Obi-Won was force active, and also that he was probably the only force user of any power. Keep in mind, Vader did NOT sense Obi-won when he was in ORBIT ABOVE TATTOOINE. A much greater distance away, and Obi-Won was still in hiding. Also, Vader did not sense that Leia was his Daughter, nor sense that Luke was his son, or even seem to know who Luke was on the Death Star. Part of what may have helped Vader sense Kennobi (in fact I'd bet money on it) was the hatred and anger in Vader, and his desire for revenge due to the wounds Kennobi inflicted on him in their last meeting.

As for Mara Jade, her existance was outside the Trilogy's scope, and in my last post I tried to stay Trilogy specific for those who had mentioned only using the Trilogy as cannon in deciding these things. That is why I only really brought up events occouring in the orriginal Trilogy.

[Chandra Mindarass]

Lots of good points here.

Me and my group settled upon the following "rules" for background and source material:

What happened in the trilogies is fact. There is no renaming planets, killing off characters or wiping out entire races, that still had appearances in the movies.

My players haven't read the Timothy Zahn trilogy, I'm not a big fan of it and I put the Dark Empire comics away after only a few flips of the pages. The most exposure me and my players had to the "Expanded Universe" was probably through computer and video games like KotOR or Jedi Knight.

When one of those EU stories is contrary to a story in my campaign, or I think that a name or race is totally unsuitable, it gets kicked out. While it would be difficult to explain, that Nar Shaddaa doesn't exist, I found Thule (ancient pre-viking sea-kingdom in northwestern europe) to be unbearable as a name for a planet in a Star Wars environment. I my campaign you can't clone force sensitivity. Ysalamiri don't "push away" the force, but rather warp it.

There is no life outside the force!

Yuuzhan Vong is a strong alcoholic drink in my campaign...a Yuuzhan Vong still does walker-scale damage though! )

This is what we came up with after a lot of dicussion. It would have been a totally different thing, if my players would be fans of the original Han Solo adventures. I would have borrowed the books and we would have found a way to have both stories (prequel and novel) to be true somehow. The same would be true for NJO or the Thrawn era.

Back to the topic:
It could imagine that the Sith were severely worried about the possible actions of Master Yoda and Genral Kenobi for quite some time until daily business proved them wrong. The two never showed up again and the New Order engulfed everything.

Now almost one and a half decades pass in which the remaining Jedi either die fighting or went into hiding, creating the illusion, that they are all dead. In my campaign, this is the point, where the inquisition becomes bothersome and subjected to the same betrayal, that destroyed the Jedi Order years ago. Let another four years pass in which nothing happens to stop the Emperor and the Sith will fool themselves into believing that the dark side is invincible and has overcome the inferiour. They become lazy and almost careless, strengthening their grip on the galaxy and draining their dark force points from opression and terror.
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[KageRyu]

Excellent post Chandra Mindarass. I agree with the bit about the EU sources too, they are entirely at the GM's discretion, though I do disagree with the bit about not being able to alter the movie "facts", I feel that some of the fun of roleplaying is giving players a chance to tinker with what actually happened in the trilogy. However, each GM has their own style, and so it should be.

Though I see we are in agreement in regards as to how Jedi may have survived the purge.
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[Trusty]