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leao
Cadet
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
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 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | leao wrote: | A new question!! :
When a Jedi wants to lose his DSP, what do you think: he has to refuse the bonus dice everytime… or he can use the bonus in all no-bad actions, without penalties in his “losing dark power” intentions? |
Per the RAW, the means are just as important as the ends. If the Jedi uses the Dark Side to perform a good deed, he still gets a DSP because he used the Dark Side. |
It says that you can use the bonus dices if the action is not evil. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16263
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| leao wrote: | | It says that you can use the bonus dices if the action is not evil. |
In that case, I would say that using the bonus dice doesn't bring another DSP, but it eliminates any atonement progress, and the character must start all over again back at square one.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14137
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | In my opinion he has to refuse the bonus always. If you accept the boon of the dark side, it twists your actions. If they take the bonus, they can't control kill result on damage rolls and any other mean things that you can think up.
Also, one thing I generally forget, is that I've allowed some Jedi in NJO era to still be allowed to train at the academy, even though they've already got a dark side point. Next time I'll be more careful.  |
Yup. No acceptance of the dark side period while attoning. OR go back to start.
On the training/dsp, i have always felt that if either person in a master/student relationship had DSP's the other should gain one for willingly training/being taught by the other... NOT just the way it is where if a master teaches a student with them he also earns one.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | On the training/dsp, i have always felt that if either person in a master/student relationship had DSP's the other should gain one for willingly training/being taught by the other... NOT just the way it is where if a master teaches a student with them he also earns one. |
I allow a Willpower roll to resist this.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | On the training/dsp, i have always felt that if either person in a master/student relationship had DSP's the other should gain one for willingly training/being taught by the other... |
How does the master or the student know that the other has one or more DSPs? |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:04 am Post subject: |
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Sense path..
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Bren
Vice Admiral
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Sense path.. |
But many Jedi, especially students, don't know this skill (and requires knowing emptiness and hibernation trance before you can learn it) and even if they do, students could easily fail the moderate difficulty, and even if the roll is successful the result is allegorical and non specific, hence open to interpretation. Personally, I don't like this rule since it penalizes the character for actions that the character has no certain way of knowing are wrong. It also removes interesting drama of having the young Jedi template character learn from a struggling failed Jedi. I would rather make the cost of training (with) someone with a DSP less cut and dried, but more insidious, e.g.
1) The DSP teacher could teach DSP powers to the student so that the student can "know their enemy" but this new power may now tempt the unwary student to use the power.
2) The DSP student may be rash his actions always in a hurry and pushing to learn and try new powers or even to discover or invent (dangerous) powers on their own. During the Empire period, the rash student may draw the notice of Jedi hunters to both student and master. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16263
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Sense path.. |
Life Detection and Life Sense both involve aspects of detecting details about characters, both their physical condition and their Force sensitivity. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that it allows them to detect DSPs as well. Of course, the target would be able to roll Control to resist, or there could be some kind of Force Mask power that makes him appear other than what he is.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Bren
Vice Admiral
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Life Detection and Life Sense both involve aspects of detecting details about characters, both their physical condition and their Force sensitivity. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that it allows them to detect DSPs as well. Of course, the target would be able to roll Control to resist, or there could be some kind of Force Mask power that makes him appear other than what he is. |
I am still struggling with the fairness of this aspect of the rules. Certainly Life Detection and Life Sense are more common and learned sooner (in my experience) than Sense Path, so that would be an improvement. The teacher is more likely to be able to roll better than a blocking student, which seems reasonable. But it still seems potentially harsh on the one hand to hand out a DSP for something that is not within the character's knowledge or control and on the other hand, the mere handing out of a DSP seems to encourage viewing this as a simple penalty rather than an opportunity for interesting drama.
Other thoughts? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | I am still struggling with the fairness of this aspect of the rules. Certainly Life Detection and Life Sense are more common and learned sooner (in my experience) than Sense Path, so that would be an improvement. |
In the RAW for Life Detection, if you beat the Difficulty by 10 or more, the adept is aware of whether or not the character is Force Sensitive or has Force skills. A quick fix would be to say that, at +15, the adept can sense if the character has DSPs, and at +20, he can sense how many.
| Quote: | | The teacher is more likely to be able to roll better than a blocking student, which seems reasonable. But it still seems potentially harsh on the one hand to hand out a DSP for something that is not within the character's knowledge or control and on the other hand, the mere handing out of a DSP seems to encourage viewing this as a simple penalty rather than an opportunity for interesting drama. |
I agree. DSPs should be earned for truly evil acts, not as the result of deception or association. IMO, it's far more likely that an evil teacher will corrupt the student subtly, by teaching him in such a way that leaves him more vulnerable to actions that may result in a DSP.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | I am still struggling with the fairness of this aspect of the rules. Certainly Life Detection and Life Sense are more common and learned sooner (in my experience) than Sense Path, so that would be an improvement. The teacher is more likely to be able to roll better than a blocking student, which seems reasonable. But it still seems potentially harsh on the one hand to hand out a DSP for something that is not within the character's knowledge or control and on the other hand, the mere handing out of a DSP seems to encourage viewing this as a simple penalty rather than an opportunity for interesting drama.
Other thoughts? |
Id allow for quite a simple Sense roll as long as the teacher (with DSP) is not trying to subvert the pupil and masking his dark side taint. Also, during training I would allow a Jedi lore check to see wether the pupil understands that something is wrong about what he is taught.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| leao wrote: | A new question!! :
When a Jedi wants to lose his DSP, what do you think: he has to refuse the bonus dice everytime… ? |
Yes. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I agree. DSPs should be earned for truly evil acts, not as the result of deception or association. |
Always nice when we agree.  |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16263
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | I agree. DSPs should be earned for truly evil acts, not as the result of deception or association. |
Always nice when we agree. |
8) Something that happens so rarely should be savored whenever possible. See you back at the fistfight! 
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Anakin
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 129
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: The Lure of the Dark Side |
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| leao wrote: |
“When a character with Dark Side Points uses a Force skill, her skill roll gets a bonus of ID per Dark Side Point. Characters who accept this bonus are particularly susceptible to its temptations and must be sure to act with the purest intent or they will receive more Dark Side Points and risk going over to the dark side.”
I’m the gamemaster and a player role a jedi with 1 DSP… and he probably will take his 2nd point soon. The rule is fascinating but we think it is extreme.
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I agree. According to these rules, the Emperor with his 43 DSP would have no need for the death star...
I use these rules instead:
1 DSP gives 1D bonus
3 DSP gives 2D bonus
6 DSP, 3D bonus
10 DSP, 4D and so on.
Thus you get the luring effect into play; the character have to go deeper and deeper into the dark side to get the benefits
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If you fall seven times, get up eight times. |
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