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leao
Cadet
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
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 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:33 am Post subject: Full dodge running |
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How it works for moving fast with a vehicle and full dodge?
It is strange that I can’t make any other action the round of full dodge, but I have to drive.
The situation is:
- I’m moving at double speed in a normal terrain
- I want to make a full dodge
- I have to roll twice (one for moving and one for dodge) or just one?
- I have to roll with MAP -1D (move and dodge) or without?
And in the opposite side…
- I’m moving at double speed in a normal terrain
- I want to ram the guy above
- The difficulty to ram is +10 (so it’s 25)
- I have to roll twice (one for moving and one for ramming) or just one?
- I have to roll with MAP -1D (move and ram) or without?
Thanks
:_Leao |
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:27 am Post subject: |
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My interpretation was that if you wanted to have a full dodge (that is to say without any MAPs) you essentially are maneuvering so much that you aren't covering much ground. Thus, you wouldn't have any MAPs, but you aren't getting anywhere due to all the evasive maneuvering.
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leao
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Joined: 23 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | My interpretation was that if you wanted to have a full dodge (that is to say without any MAPs) you essentially are maneuvering so much that you aren't covering much ground. Thus, you wouldn't have any MAPs, but you aren't getting anywhere due to all the evasive maneuvering. |
If I’m moving at doublespeed with a YT I can’t just “get nowhere”. I can’t stop, I still have to move because the ship is going… |
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Esoomian
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Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| leao wrote: | | If I’m moving at doublespeed with a YT I can’t just “get nowhere”. I can’t stop, I still have to move because the ship is going… |
Yes that is true you can only change speed by one level per round so you'd loose one level of speed as you did a full dodge.
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leao
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Joined: 23 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | leao wrote: | | If I’m moving at doublespeed with a YT I can’t just “get nowhere”. I can’t stop, I still have to move because the ship is going… |
Yes that is true you can only change speed by one level per round so you'd loose one level of speed as you did a full dodge. |
I don’t get it. All time I make a full dodge I have to loose one level of speed?
And it don’t answer my question. Do you mean that when I do a full dodge I can’t roll for drive? It means as a 0 on drive test… |
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Well the dodge (in my mind) would include not crashing so you wouldn't get a zero (unless you rolled poorly for your dodge) but you would get a -1D MAP because you are still in effect doing two things, moving erratically so you don't get hit and not crashing.
The reason you drop a level of speed is because full dodge is supposed to be the only thing you can do that round so in my mind when you full dodge you can't keep going at the speed you're going due to all your juking and swerving (and quite possibly breaking).
If you want to keep going then you have to do a regular dodge and then you're easier to hit but you can perform other actions.
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | The reason you drop a level of speed is because full dodge is supposed to be the only thing you can do that round... |
And in addition, you can't dodge at all when you All-Out move. |
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | And in addition, you can't dodge at all when you All-Out move. |
Do you become more difficult to hit when moving at different speeds as well?
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | And in addition, you can't dodge at all when you All-Out move. |
Do you become more difficult to hit when moving at different speeds as well? |
Except for missiles/torps vs. spaceships, I don't think speed of the target matters. We tend to use simplified movement, so it's possible I am forgetting something though. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | Do you become more difficult to hit when moving at different speeds as well? |
Except for missiles/torps vs. spaceships, I don't think speed of the target matters. We tend to use simplified movement, so it's possible I am forgetting something though. |
I don't think moving All-Out should offer the same penalties to hit as a Full Dodge, but a moving object should technically be harder to hit simply by dint of a moving target being a more difficult target. Of course, something like this would be where the MFTAS system on a Stormtrooper would really come into play.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I don't think moving All-Out should offer the same penalties to hit as a Full Dodge |
[Edit= Ignore this section I misread the post above]Full dodge means the difficulty to hit is the roll for the dodge + the basic difficulty to hit whereas a dodge substitutes the basic difficulty to hit for the dodge roll so you'd have to roll movement and then use that as the dodge score which seems a little off to me.[/edit]
Additionally if you're moving all out you're moving in a straight line only deviating to avoid collisions (unless you fail the roll) so in empty space you're just going dead straight. This might make it harder to hit a target if it is moving past you but if you're directly behind it or even better it's directly in front of you and approaching rapidly (say to ram for instance) all you have to do is shoot straight ahead and if they're in range you'll hit.
I'm happy to keep moving all out as something you do instead of defence rather than defence in and of itself.
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | Additionally if you're moving all out you're moving in a straight line only deviating to avoid collisions (unless you fail the roll) so in empty space you're just going dead straight. This might make it harder to hit a target if it is moving past you but if you're directly behind it or even better it's directly in front of you and approaching rapidly (say to ram for instance) all you have to do is shoot straight ahead and if they're in range you'll hit.
I'm happy to keep moving all out as something you do instead of defence rather than defence in and of itself. |
I agree. Also even if the target is moving broadside on to the attacker a straight movement is easy to compensate for.
All-out move can be a defense if the target can move out of range before being hit, which obviously only works if it is moving away from the attacker in the first place.  |
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TheDoctor
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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My interpretation is that as the pilot, you can move, turn, etc. but you are only making your piloting roll, and you are piloting defensively.
Hence the pilot can not do anything else (shields, sensors, fire weapons, etc.), and the pilot's piloting does not give any advantages to the firing of a separate gunner if applicable.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | Additionally if you're moving all out you're moving in a straight line only deviating to avoid collisions (unless you fail the roll) so in empty space you're just going dead straight. This might make it harder to hit a target if it is moving past you but if you're directly behind it or even better it's directly in front of you and approaching rapidly (say to ram for instance) all you have to do is shoot straight ahead and if they're in range you'll hit.
I'm happy to keep moving all out as something you do instead of defence rather than defence in and of itself. |
I agree. Also even if the target is moving broadside on to the attacker a straight movement is easy to compensate for.
All-out move can be a defense if the target can move out of range before being hit, which obviously only works if it is moving away from the attacker in the first place. |
Any hunter will tell you that a target running all out through even mildly cluttered terrain is a far more difficult shot than shooting at something that is walking slowly or standing still. There is a reason why fighter pilots practice deflection shooting, and brag about it when they can pull it off. Shooting at a target that is either stationary, moving towards you or away from you means that you do not have to work so hard to calculate the lead on the target on the fly. With a target moving laterally, you have to account for lead, vertical movement by the target (moving uphill or downhill), range changes, intervening obstacles (if there are any). I can assure you from experience that it is far harder to hit a running target than it is to hit one walking or standing still.
Fighter pilots may have assistance from targeting computers and sensor systems, but this to account for the fact that they are engaging targets moving several orders of magnitude faster than that of a running human. Targeting assistance is necessary to convert an impossible task into merely a difficult one.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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I guess my opinion (and it is just an opinion) can be summed up like this.
Unless you're actively trying to make yourself harder to hit then you're not any harder to hit.
Sure moving full speed through obstacles will make you hard to hit but the obsticals themselves are factored into the basic to-hit roll and the speed makes you harder to hit by giving the person less time to actually hit you.
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