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leao
Cadet
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
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 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject: The Lure of the Dark Side |
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Hi guys!! I’m new in this forum and happy to find a living community for this great game.
I ’m going to ask you about a new revised *strage* rule.
The rule say:
“When a character with Dark Side Points uses a Force skill, her skill roll gets a bonus of ID per Dark Side Point. Characters who accept this bonus are particularly susceptible to its temptations and must be sure to act with the purest intent or they will receive more Dark Side Points and risk going over to the dark side.”
I’m the gamemaster and a player role a jedi with 1 DSP… and he probably will take his 2nd point soon. The rule is fascinating but we think it is extreme.
That’s why.
1) +1D per point is too much. 2 DSP means +2D in all three force skills! It risks overpowering the jedi
2) A skill check at least one level harder - if the jedi refuse the bonus - is very bad. A +6 on the difficulty is like a -2D on dice pool!!
3) How do you think “are particularly susceptible to its temptations” means??
- Maybe: when a character do a bad action he got extra DSP?
- Maybe: the range of what is a “bad action” increase? It is intendend only for action with a force skill or everything?
Thanks!
_Leao |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: The Lure of the Dark Side |
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| leao wrote: | Hi guys!! I’m new in this forum and happy to find a living community for this great game.
I ’m going to ask you about a new revised *strage* rule.
The rule say:
“When a character with Dark Side Points uses a Force skill, her skill roll gets a bonus of ID per Dark Side Point. Characters who accept this bonus are particularly susceptible to its temptations and must be sure to act with the purest intent or they will receive more Dark Side Points and risk going over to the dark side.”
I’m the gamemaster and a player role a jedi with 1 DSP… and he probably will take his 2nd point soon. The rule is fascinating but we think it is extreme.
That’s why.
1) +1D per point is too much. 2 DSP means +2D in all three force skills! It risks overpowering the jedi
2) A skill check at least one level harder - if the jedi refuse the bonus - is very bad. A +6 on the difficulty is like a -2D on dice pool!!
3) How do you think “are particularly susceptible to its temptations” means??
- Maybe: when a character do a bad action he got extra DSP?
- Maybe: the range of what is a “bad action” increase? It is intendend only for action with a force skill or everything?
Thanks!
_Leao |
1) If you feel its too much, make it a pool of extra dice with a size of 1D per DSP. Remember though that having 2 DSPs mean that you have a 1/6 chance of your character turning NPC.
(Im currently redoing how DSP works. As my rules allow for more DSPs I will probably switch to the 'pool idea' above).
2) I dont really get what you mean with 'very bad'. Is it too much, or two little?
(In my games, to use the Force without using the Dark Side bonus you have remove 1D per DSP you have).
3) I guess its up to GM fiat.
(I have a Will of the Dark Side where as soon as you have a DSP you have to resist its will with either Willpower or Control).
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14136
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: The Lure of the Dark Side |
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| leao wrote: | | 1) +1D per point is too much. 2 DSP means +2D in all three force skills! It risks overpowering the jedi |
Its supposed to be powrful.. thats is why its the lure of the darkside. Remember yoda's words. Quicker, powerful, more seductive.
BUT once you turn TOO the darkside, you no longer gain that bonus.
| leao wrote: |
2) A skill check at least one level harder - if the jedi refuse the bonus - is very bad. A +6 on the difficulty is like a -2D on dice pool!!
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At least 1 level higher.. usually 5 points.
| leao wrote: | 3) How do you think “are particularly susceptible to its temptations” means??
- Maybe: when a character do a bad action he got extra DSP?
- Maybe: the range of what is a “bad action” increase? It is intendend only for action with a force skill or everything?
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For me, this means
A) IF the act skirts the darkside, they gain a DSP
B) IF the act flat out gives a dsp, i give 2
C) if the act might be close, and you would normally warn someone.. you don't warn this guy.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:27 am Post subject: Re: The Lure of the Dark Side |
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[quote="garhkal"] | leao wrote: | | leao wrote: | 3) How do you think “are particularly susceptible to its temptations” means??
- Maybe: when a character do a bad action he got extra DSP?
- Maybe: the range of what is a “bad action” increase? It is intendend only for action with a force skill or everything?
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For me, this means
A) IF the act skirts the darkside, they gain a DSP
B) IF the act flat out gives a dsp, i give 2
C) if the act might be close, and you would normally warn someone.. you don't warn this guy. |
For me it is C and possibly A, but not B. Mostly I only warn for new players or possibly if the Jedi asks if doing X may gain a DSP. Also if a PC has a DSP I will remind them to use their bonus and suggest actions that would tend towards the Dark Side e.g.
"You know if you let him go he will only atteck you later"
"He gave the order to destroy the city, killing tens of thousands of civilians including women and children. How many more children will die if he lives."
"He killed your father [mother, wife, friend...fill in the blank]"
"If you tie him up, he may get free and sound the alarm. If you kill him you maintain the element of surprise and after all it is war."
While the bonus can be an asset to the Jedi, Typically a teacher will not train a person with DSPs. This means increasing force abilities and powers cost 2xCPs until the Jedi attones away all their DSPs. This will slow the Jedi's progressioni while they have the DSPs.
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | (In my games, to use the Force without using the Dark Side bonus you have remove 1D per DSP you have). |
I think I like this. It is simple and it makes it a lot harder for a Jedi with 4 DSPs to attone while adventuring. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14136
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:47 am Post subject: |
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I also like that '-1d per dsp zap.. Though i imght not count it for the 'first dsp' since many consider that 'a freebie;.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I also like that '-1d per dsp zap.. Though i imght not count it for the 'first dsp' since many consider that 'a freebie;. |
I'd keep it. Coming back from the Dark Side and atoning should be a difficult choice and activity.
Also, this may be a first: garhkal has a more favorable to the Jedi interpretation of the rules than me.  |
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leao
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Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I also like that '-1d per dsp zap.. Though i imght not count it for the 'first dsp' since many consider that 'a freebie;. |
garhkal has a more favorable to the Jedi interpretation of the rules than me. |
I think garhkal make the route to the dark side much more fascinating!!  |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I also like that '-1d per dsp zap.. Though i imght not count it for the 'first dsp' since many consider that 'a freebie;. |
I didnt have the impression you were the one to hand out freebies..
Think that in the RAW you have increased difficulties from DSP 1. In my system, with a -1D penalty, you already get a slightly lower penalty.
One of the 'bonuses' from this is that if you rack up on DSPs while having low Force Skills you kind of get caught in the 'grip of the Dark Side' as you cannot use your Force Skills without using the bonus. A more powerful Jedi might be more able to 'suck up' the penalty.. Hence no shortcut to quick power without quickly getting snared.
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Think that in the RAW you have increased difficulties from DSP 1. In my system, with a -1D penalty, you already get a slightly lower penalty. |
That is my recollection as well. I haven't had a chance to look at how your -1D per DSP compares to the RAW. But as I said, the simplicity of the math is appealing.
| Quote: | | One of the 'bonuses' from this is that if you rack up on DSPs while having low Force Skills you kind of get caught in the 'grip of the Dark Side' as you cannot use your Force Skills without using the bonus. A more powerful Jedi might be more able to 'suck up' the penalty.. Hence no shortcut to quick power without quickly getting snared. |
I like that what you propose makes it very hard for a character with 4-5 DSPs and Force abilities below the level of Obi, Yoda, Luke, or Anakin to use the force without using the Dark Side bonus. While ultimately the Dark Side is not stronger, it is "quicker, easier, more seductive." Which the lure of the Dark Side should reflect. |
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Think that in the RAW you have increased difficulties from DSP 1. In my system, with a -1D penalty, you already get a slightly lower penalty. |
That is my recollection as well. I haven't had a chance to look at how your -1D per DSP compares to the RAW. But as I said, the simplicity of the math is appealing.
| Quote: | | One of the 'bonuses' from this is that if you rack up on DSPs while having low Force Skills you kind of get caught in the 'grip of the Dark Side' as you cannot use your Force Skills without using the bonus. A more powerful Jedi might be more able to 'suck up' the penalty.. Hence no shortcut to quick power without quickly getting snared. |
I like that what you propose makes it very hard for a character with 4-5 DSPs and Force abilities below the level of Obi, Yoda, Luke, or Anakin to use the force without using the Dark Side bonus. While ultimately the Dark Side is not stronger, it is "quicker, easier, more seductive." Which the lure of the Dark Side should reflect. |
With this system, very experienced characters aside, once they hit 3 DSP most Jedis seem to be stuck or keep sliding down the path to the Dark Side. The only alternative is more or less to keep using the force completely, very easy powers may be the exception.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: |
I'd keep it. Coming back from the Dark Side and atoning should be a difficult choice and activity.
Also, this may be a first: garhkal has a more favorable to the Jedi interpretation of the rules than me. |
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I also like that '-1d per dsp zap.. Though i imght not count it for the 'first dsp' since many consider that 'a freebie;. |
I didnt have the impression you were the one to hand out freebies..
Think that in the RAW you have increased difficulties from DSP 1. In my system, with a -1D penalty, you already get a slightly lower penalty.
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Hey... i have a soft side.... Not much as i DO make it harder to attone for doing the same thing. BUT i always have seen the 1st dsp as a 'freebie' as anyone can make the occasional slip. Doesn't mean they are now on the dark path.
| ZzaphodD wrote: |
One of the 'bonuses' from this is that if you rack up on DSPs while having low Force Skills you kind of get caught in the 'grip of the Dark Side' as you cannot use your Force Skills without using the bonus. A more powerful Jedi might be more able to 'suck up' the penalty.. Hence no shortcut to quick power without quickly getting snared. |
Precicely Z.. It is a major lure and i have almost turned 4 jedi pcs cause of it..
Now as a related note.. see a new thread!
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leao
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Joined: 23 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:04 am Post subject: |
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A new question!! :
When a Jedi wants to lose his DSP, what do you think: he has to refuse the bonus dice everytime… or he can use the bonus in all no-bad actions, without penalties in his “losing dark power” intentions? |
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
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In my opinion he has to refuse the bonus always. If you accept the boon of the dark side, it twists your actions. If they take the bonus, they can't control kill result on damage rolls and any other mean things that you can think up.
Also, one thing I generally forget, is that I've allowed some Jedi in NJO era to still be allowed to train at the academy, even though they've already got a dark side point. Next time I'll be more careful.  |
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | In my opinion he has to refuse the bonus always. If you accept the boon of the dark side, it twists your actions. If they take the bonus, they can't control kill result on damage rolls and any other mean things that you can think up.
Also, one thing I generally forget, is that I've allowed some Jedi in NJO era to still be allowed to train at the academy, even though they've already got a dark side point. Next time I'll be more careful. |
Also, in my games, when calling upon the Dark Side you immediately have to pass a test vs Will of the Dark Side (ie at test of WP or (Control-no of DSP) vs Will of the Dark side (a number of dice equal to your DSPs). If you fail to beat the WDS you will cause unnessecary harm and act more cruelly than your intentions.
When it comes to using the Dark Side bonus. If, at any time, you are called by the GM to test against the Will of the Dark Side in the same round or the round after you have used the DS bonus you suffer a -1D penalty to your test.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16263
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| leao wrote: | A new question!! :
When a Jedi wants to lose his DSP, what do you think: he has to refuse the bonus dice everytime… or he can use the bonus in all no-bad actions, without penalties in his “losing dark power” intentions? |
Per the RAW, the means are just as important as the ends. If the Jedi uses the Dark Side to perform a good deed, he still gets a DSP because he used the Dark Side.
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