Stormtrooper Dilema!

[Vanion]

Let me first say that I know in the movies, stormtroopers go down like a ton of bricks and do so by the bulk...

Is it just me or do Stormtroopers seem almost laughably (sp?) worthless, like a Keystone Cop? Once PCs get a few adventures under their belts, how could they ever take Stormtroopers seriously? I once had a group of 4 players take down about 20 Stormtroopers (althought they fought no more than 8-10 troopers at a time) before they were finally put down and captured. I don't want to tamper with either Star Wars "continuity" (like using Dark Troopers before their time) or Stormtrooper stats. When the characters reach 7D-8D dodge, even with combined fire, it's hard to hit them with Stormtroopers puddly blaster skill (3D after armor penalty, I think?). Certainly the combined fire ability helps, but the +1/trooper ends up often not being enough of a help.

After a while, the Empire looses some of it's menace... when it's elite troops almost become a joke.

PC1: "So, how does it look?"
PC2: "Don't worry, the installation is only guarded by Stormtroopers."
PC1: "How many?"
PC2: "Does it really matter?"

Most of the threat to PCs during the Rebellion era is generated from the overwhelming power and evil of the Empire. When all the air is taken out of the evil part, it eliminates one of the greatest elements of the game.

One solution I've found in the past is Imperial bounties... which works well. Kill enough Imperials and you'll eventually have every bounty hunter in the galaxy on your tail... however, I've SO overused this in the past and realistically, until the PCs have a HUGE price on their heads, they can often stay "on the move" and evade many minor bounty hunters.

I'm trying to think of other ideas. Anyone have any suggestions?

[obidancer]

Well first of all, Stormtroopers have a specialisation in Blaster: blaster rifle at 5D, so technically they'll be shooting with 4D with armor restriction.
Then there are those Veteran troopers that can ignore their armor penalties. Get three of them to combine an action and they are already shooting with 6D.
It is also well known that Imperial Royal Guards often go back into regular Stormtrooper duties; the idea is to surprise your players. They're expecting no trouble from this group of 6 troopers when it turns out they are veterant troopers lead by a Royal Guard. They'll be up for the surprise when their overconfidence will be crushed by a small group of men-in-white that use completely different battle tactics, using cover, feints, higher ground, darkness...
Also keep in mind that with their armor, stormtroopers have an extra +2D when shooting target moving more that 10m/rd; which means every PC running at high speed or a wookiee only going at cruising speed...
Eventually, let them meet a couple of Storm Commando, and they'll soon realise the Empire is still an entity to be scared of.

[scott2978]

Well first off by not wanting to change their stats you're really limiting yourself. The basic book stats are for an AVERAGE stormtrooper, not EVERY stormtrooper. Also note that the elite Imperial Guard take rotations in stormtrooper armor to keep their fighting skills sharp. This is officially documented in the Imperial sourcebook and in the Rebel Specforce Handbook. Also, there are officially (ie: not made up by me) "elite stormtroopers" out there as well. I don't know off hand what their stats are, but they have like 5D blaster and 5D dodge.

If you don't think using elite stormtroopers would fit into your game just now, perhaps you could make the normal ones more dangerous by changing their tactics? Have the troopers toss a Thermal Detonator at the PC's, or have them call for backup... from a TIE Bomber or an AT-ST or an orbiting Star Destroyer. You can also give at least one Stormtrooper per squad armed with a light repeating blaster, and at least one per squad may carry a concussion grenade launcher (this is seen in ANH in Mos Eisely, in a single squad we see a light repeating blaster and a concussion grenade launcher!) Those types of upgrades make even an "average" stromtrooper squad into a very dangerous enemy. Also, have your stormtroopers take cover during fights, and use the "full dodge" when appropriate. Cover also adds to their STR to resist damage if they are hit. When it becomes obvious to the troopers that they're dealing with well known dangerous types, the stormtroopers aren't going to stand there and get killed, they are highly trained professionals who know what they're doing on the battlefield.

My typical Stormtrooper tactics, when faced with dangerous enemies:
Step 1: Take cover!
Step 2: Toss a couple grenades or TD's
Step 3: Call for backup (orbital strike, TIE Bomber, AT-ST)
Step 4: Return fire!

If the stormtroopers have reason to believe that they may encounter hostiles (ie: they are searching for the PC's) then their backup may be only seconds away, waiting for the stormtroopers to instantly relay a strike coordinate to them via helmet comlink. You'd be amazed what the prospect of a proton torpedo hitting them will do to make the PC's nervous! 8D starfighter scale damage is enough to kill even the most hardened characters. If you want to demonstrate this to the PC's without actually killing them, have the torpedo land near enough to do something like 6D or 8D character scale damage to the PC's but not full damage. Tell them they hear the characteristic whine of a TIE engine just before they hear the explosion and are thrown to the deck, taking massive shrapnel hits in the process. That will make them think twice about attacking stormtroopers!

[Tatum]

edit: i posted this before reading the other replies, then noticed I said a lot of the same stuff, so I guess I agree, heh.

Yea, Id agree, change their tactics up a little. With newer characters I always make storm troopers kind of dumb, you know, no dodge, no cover, only shoot at one player.

But with better characters have the troopers always go for cover, or dodge, or take a round to aim (if the players arent specifically looking they wont see those 2 or 3 in the back that are taking a round to line up a shot), or concentrate all their shots on one player. Maybe its just me, but throwing bigger numbers always seemed to work. Sure, they still suck, but blaster rifles do good damage, and at least a few of the horde are bound to get lucky shots.

Also, I always ignored the armor penalties and gave ST's 4D Blaster and 4D dodge. This seems to work because its enough to really give new characters some trouble and in larger numbers it can even get to more experienced characters.

If thats not enough you can up their equipment. Give them vehicles, grenades, maybe one or two tripod mounted repeating blasters.

I wouldnt use too many "elite" troopers. Theyre really cool to use once in a while, but not too often. Of course, if the players lead a lot of attacks you could always have the elite troops, or at least better ST's, guarding the objective.

Some times though, I think players want to just mow through ST's. Its one of those things that lets them know there characters are advancing and actually getting powerful. Its still important to challenge higher "level" characters, but you gotta let them flex their muscles sometimes too. Just be sure to knock them back down a couple steps when they start getting too cocky ;>

[Loc Taal]

Here are a few of my posts from this older, similar topic.

[Warhippo]

Check out Hideouts and Strongholds p79. There's an interesting story idea about an Imperial Royal Guardsman doing a secret tour of duty with an Imperial Army unit.

He's highly skilled and would be a real surprise for the players. In the source book, the idea is that the PC's take out the regular troops and he slips off after realising that they're toast. He then conducts a 'one-man hit-and-fade' battle with the PC's.

BTW Hideouts has been uploaded by the ever helpful DM Lackey in the usual place.

[Vanion]

Thanks for the infor guys. My main concern was not to go out of the bounds already laid down, not only by what we've seen in the movies, but by what also appears in the WEG books. That was my main concern with altering their stats. That just boarders on being unfair to the players and... because most players don't expect a typical trooper in white to have 7D stats, I'd be afraid they'd end up dead. i don't want dead, just challenged.

I wasn't aware of the rolay guards pulling stormtrooper duty. I'll remember that. I know the books say that the true number of royal guards are unknown, I've always treated them as a fairly limited number. I'd really have to use this one carefully.

The advice on tactics is a good point. Usually, I don't have the troopers do much more than combine fire on the most powerful PC (Wookie for example). Often these rounds of combined fire still miss a character with 6D or higher dodge... and a single squad often doesn't manage to live more than a few rounds. However, I always have a random number of rounds before back-up arrives... the PCs just usually kill the patrol before back-up can arrive (usually 2D6 rounds to be fair). I often don't think of cover until it's to late. And I try not to give the troopers multiple actions because their blaster skill is already low enough (3D after armor penalty**) without multiple action penalties. I guess I'll just have to have squads use more delaying tactics, like heavy cover, like you guys suggested... until lots of back-up arrives

**not sure where your Stormtrooper stats are coming from, Obidancer. Imperial Sourcebook, 2nd ed Sourcebook, and 2nd ed Revised Rulebook all list Stormtroopers at 4D(3D after armor penalty) blaster.

I think the equipment advice caught my eye the most. I've never thought of that! Not only could they employ light repeating blasters, but back-up squads could bring up a heavy repeating blaster as well... or an AT-ST, like you said. I could also use grenades, which I never thought about before.

Btw, according to 2nd ed... if you look at the damage radius (20meters)and the range of a thrown thermal det (max 12 meters)... you can't throw one far enough to be out of the bast radius, yourself (5D damage at 12 meters). I can just picture a Stormtrooper throwing one, then after the smoke clears, all the stormtroopers are dead and the PCs are the only ones who survived.

Thanks for the help, guys!

[Stule]

Most importantly, remember it's your game. You can make it challenging. Maybe your group has pissed off the Empire enough that they create a special squad of Stormtroopers to take care of the PC's. They don't have to be killer Stormies but they could have +2D on their Skills making them a little tougher. You could even give them different colored armor to indicate their status so when they show up, your PC's will know.

Just my 2 cents.

[Tatum]

You'll find the right balance after a while, just takes some trial and error.

Seriously though, try running their stats at 4D. It's reasonable to assume that theyve trained enough to negate the penalty and that extra dice really does make a difference. 3D just makes them way too weak, even against new characters. I didnt actaully notice the armor penalty when I first started. The GM I learned with used 4D, so I used 4D, then used 3D because of the penalty, and went back to 4D.

Like Stule said, you dont have hide the elite troops in normal armor (I never have). If they look unique the players will know theyre in for a fight, which will make things a little more tense. Also, they dont have to be royal guards, just an "elite" ST squad. Youd have to assume there are plenty of the around.

Yea, the tactis do make a difference. If possible, have them at a distance, taking cover, with at least a couple taking aim (takes one round to aim and adds +1D to their blaster shot).

As far as thermal detonators go, dont use those very often, too powerful. Theyre not supposed to be easy to obtain and theyre potentially unbalancing.

[scott2978]

One way you can put "Elite" stormtroopers into regular armor but still have them appear different is by allowing the Elite ones to paint some kind of logo on their armor. In the WEG supplement Pirates and Privateers (I think) there is a stormtrooper squad that paints a black Imperial symbol on their chestplates. There is also black stormtrooper armor as seen in Star Wars Galaxies and elsewhere.

[Lord Ben]

Since Scout Troopers don't have a dex penalty and have 5D blasters I usually figure the 4D blasters that the regular stormtroopers have is really 5D and the 4D is after the -1D is already in effect.

Usually I give a squad of stormtroopers a few lgt repeating blasters or some other heavy weapon. Those troopers typically are more skilled. IE, I gave them 7D in blasters and when they fired 3x per round it turned into 5D. It made them a bit more scary without being completely overpowerd.

[Ray]

How to make Stormies scarey?

Smoke Grenades. And have their helmets specially filter it out. You can't see them to shoot them. You can't dodge them properly, because you don't know where they are to seek cover well.

Or throw a cargo bay full of them at the PCs. The Cargo Bay of a Heavy Freighter.

There'll be more Stormies than the PCs have Blaster Bolts to shoot them with.

And never, ever forget grenades!

[Volar the Healer]

[Chandra Mindarass]

Combat drugs, experimental weapons, new equipment. Or freak them out with variant troopers.

The arctic soldiers in Ep V are Imperial Army, but the scouts on Endor are variant-stormtroopers. I also liked the idea of swamptroopers in JK II, there might be other special units, (underwater, deep space, urban, commando) that somehow didn't make it into the movies. Maybe they were tested, but proved to be too expensive or uncontrollable or there was just no place for them. They could have other stats and might be better adapted to a terrain than the characters.
_________________
RPGGamer (featuring a big portion of DLOS-stats!)

>-q=p---

[Vanion]