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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:07 am Post subject: |
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You forgot the taxman's cut!
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jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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You cannot forget the taxman!
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Well, having gone back and looked at the various canon uses of Force Lightning and compared it to the rules, I would argue that, in almost every case, the Sith using Force Lightning is either toying with his opponent or is facing a very formidable Jedi. That being said, I would not find it unreasonable to simply remove the dice cap on damage and allow the Dark Side adept to use his full Alter dice for damage, but be able to opt to inflict lower damage. This would provide lots of useful time for taunting and monologuing by the evil villain while the hero is pinned to the ground in pain.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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There is nothing i see in any books that says a DJ has to go full bore with his dice.. ALL jedi can opt to hold dice off.
BUT imo if they fail the willpower roll, they go max!
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:35 am Post subject: |
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I like the idea that ZzaphodD proposed on another thread that Force Lightning also causes Inflict Pain. That seems in keeping with what we see especially in RotJ where Luke appears unable to act except to call out "Father..."
This would also give the villian who wants to toy with his opponent an extra incentive to use the uber-cool looking Force Lightning.
As far as Electric Judgment, using a corollary to the rule of cool (the rule of uncool) the name alone rules that one out for me. It sounds like something used by Judge Dredd not a by a Jedi. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | I like the idea that ZzaphodD proposed on another thread that Force Lightning also causes Inflict Pain. That seems in keeping with what we see especially in RotJ where Luke appears unable to act except to call out "Father..."
This would also give the villian who wants to toy with his opponent an extra incentive to use the uber-cool looking Force Lightning. |
I agree. Something like this would make Force Lightning the ultimate stereotypical villain's toy. And don't forget that in ROTJ, AOTC and ROTS, victims of Force Lightning were in obvious pain and took a round or two to fully recover while the Sith Lord responsible was either otherwise occupied (fighting Obi-wan) or gloating.
| Quote: | | As far as Electric Judgment, using a corollary to the rule of cool (the rule of uncool) the name alone rules that one out for me. It sounds like something used by Judge Dredd not a by a Jedi. |
Very true. Personally, I think Electric Judgment originated as a "cool Force Power" effect by a video game designer who was less interested in maintaining a canon story line than he was about using a cool visual effect in-game.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps someone using FL can (for say a penalty of 10 on the TN) include the effects of Inflict pain in it, but if he fails to get the diff, it doesn't activate period.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Perhaps someone using FL can (for say a penalty of 10 on the TN) include the effects of Inflict pain in it, but if he fails to get the diff, it doesn't activate period. |
Honestly, I'm not even sure why Inflict Pain is even part of the canon. There is no sign of it in any of the movies. All canon uses of Force Lightning involve the victim being either stunned or immobilized with pain, so I would just say that the pain is the Sith version of the Electric Justice stun effect.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Anakin
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 129
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Force Lightning vs. Telekinetic Kill |
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| crmcneill wrote: | Something about these two powers has been bugging me for a while. The canon material presents Force Lightning as somehow superior to TK Kill, mostly by saying that Vader is unable to project Force Lightning because of his cybernetic limbs, so he is forced to resort to TK Kill as an alternate of sorts.
However, looking at the RAW, this doesn't seem the case. From a straight numbers perspective, TK Kill rolls the attacker's full Alter skill against the defender's Perception to determine damage, while Force Lightning is limited to half of the Alter skill (rounded down). However, both Sidious and Dooku make regular use of Force Lightning, with little or no evidence of TK Kill. I'm looking for possible explanations, or for alternate versions of TK Kill and/or Force Lightning that balance out the numbers disparity somewhat.
On a somewhat related topic, can anyone think of a reason why TK Kill rolls against the target's Perception, not their Strength? Perception doesn't make sense to me if one is trying to resist a physical attack like TK Kill.
Also, when reading the description for TK Kill, it seemed more than possible that the same techniques could be used less severely to merely Stun an opponent. Does anyone see a problem with converting TK Kill into TK Kill/Stun, with the DSP waived if the character only uses the power to stun his opponent? |
Well since the player have to chose in what way the power manifest, he must be able to chose to just "kill a little bit"...
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remo moxey
Cadet
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Well, having gone back and looked at the various canon uses of Force Lightning and compared it to the rules, I would argue that, in almost every case, the Sith using Force Lightning is either toying with his opponent or is facing a very formidable Jedi. That being said, I would not find it unreasonable to simply remove the dice cap on damage and allow the Dark Side adept to use his full Alter dice for damage, but be able to opt to inflict lower damage. This would provide lots of useful time for taunting and monologuing by the evil villain while the hero is pinned to the ground in pain. |
I have always looked at the Force powers as tools. Palpatine was definitely using it to cause Luke pain. But when he was fighting Mace he had to know he couldn't win a saber duel. I think he threw lightning as a kind of shock and awe (like a flash bang grenade). Mace did have to concentrate to block it and that kept him off the offensive (if only for a few moments).
Lightning is just another tool in the Dark Siders arsenal. |
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