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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| cunning_kindred wrote: | | I think you can break the power down in whatever way feels most natural for you. I went with thematic martial arts (which might use any combination of skills as seemed appropriate) so we had a lightsaber combat, a power for sword augmentation etc. We also had a starship combat power etc. Attributes seem as good a divide as any other only you might restrict the use of certain martial arts that use skills from different attributes. |
I think breaking it by attribute feels more natural, although there would be some overlap, especially in the area of the seven lightsaber forms. The description of lightsaber combat states that each form was more a state of mind than just lightsaber technique, and that the same doctrines could be performed unarmed as well as with a lightsaber. That being said, there would be three powers; one each for Strength, Dexterity and Mechanical. They would use the same rules, but each would require a minimum attribute of 3D to learn, in addition to any of the other prerequisites.
| Quote: | | Yeah. This was bad wording on my part... sorry. I meant only that you should restrict the bonus, not do away with the broader scope of your power. Also, I forgot about MAPs as they don't come up anywhere near as often in my own game but yes... you would want a +3D bonus at least to accommodate that. |
That would be the advantage to dropping Control and making it a prerequisite instead of a skill required to activate the power. That would drop one of the MAPs right there.
| Quote: | | Personally, I feel that control is still an important part of the power as it determines how well you can use the information the Force provides. Its a combination. However, if you are going to exclude it from the activation roll, then I would have thought some appropriate control powers as prerequisites would be a better restriction as it won't bare weaker control characters from accessing the power while still demanding some commitment to that aspect. |
Seems reasonable. Concentration? Enhance Attribute?
| Quote: | | Surely only potentially counts as an automatic win. Its a bonus, having the information come to you earlier but it might also be overwhelming and confusing and sometimes more information is not a good thing. Its about how well you apply the information and if you are distracted at a critical moment you might not be able to apply the knowledge the Force has given you. A bonus represents this. If you fail the intiative roll despite the bonus then you didn't use the information the Force gave you perfectly. Sometimes even Jedi are surpised. Perhaps a +3D bonus - this is going to make most initiative rolls a foregone conclusion but it'll still give some characters a chance to surprise a 2D perception Jedi and if you have other options that effect Initiative in your game too there might be other characters that can also shock a Jedi by using more limited information better than the Jedi used his superior skills. |
I've already been working on a version of Danger Sense that opens up the possibility for a Jedi to be ambushed. The power I've written essentially breaks Danger Sense into two sections. The first is a relatively low-level roll that is actually rolled as a reaction, without the Jedi consciously activating it (similar to how it is portrayed in the canon). However, that doesn't automatically mean the Jedi knows where the threat is, just that he knows that there is a threat. At this level, the Jedi gets a 1D bonus to normal initiative rolls, and can roll initiative at -1D against surprise attacks. To get the full regular Danger Sense bonus of automatic initiative, the Jedi has to succeed on a subsequent roll to identify the danger.
Based on this power, the Jedi would be even less likely to fall for a surprise attack because he is already deeply in touch with the Force. I might be willing to overlap the two and require the Jedi to roll to detect surprise attacks while he is using Battle Mind (i.e. he is in mid-lightsaber combat with one enemy when a sniper opens fire on him from concealment), but I would want to tweak the rules appropriately, because my current vision of Danger Sense is almost entirely precognitive; normal surprise techniques wouldn't work.
Perhaps an Identify Danger roll of Moderate (instead of Very Difficult) would be necessary for the Jedi to detect new opponents or surprise attacks. If he fails the roll, the new threat is lost in the background chaos of the battle itself...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I know the idea I used of the Jedi being able to control the degree of damage if they rolled one level higher than normal wasn't an original one, but I can't seem to recall the source. Help? |
I have never heard of that, but it makes for an interesting twist.. Get high enough and you can morph the damage more..
| Quote: | | A good compromise. I know the two optional rules they offered were straight 1/1 damage bonus and 1/5 damage bonus. Do you have a standard for applying the different steps in the damage bonus (i.e. some weapons inflict 2/5, while others only inflict 1/5)? |
When i have used those rules (i always give the players the option of whether they are used or not), it has been..
Brawl.. 1/5
Melee (NON POWERED) 2/5
Melee (POWERED) 5/10.
Ranged 3/5
| Quote: | | I am so stealing that. I'm always on the hunt for skills that I can use that give non-FS PC's some of the same advantages as Jedi. |
2 Flumps use fee per galactic standard month... 
| Quote: | | What's the reference on that? I was considering a straight -3D penalty to the Brawler if he was fighting someone with a Melee weapon, but a flat penalty does feel more realistic than the randomness of the dice in this situation. |
Unfortunately since i don't have the PDF of the main rule book, i can't give you a page number.. but it is from the combat chapter.
| Quote: | | I've already been working on a version of Danger Sense that opens up the possibility for a Jedi to be ambushed. The power I've written essentially breaks Danger Sense into two sections. The first is a relatively low-level roll that is actually rolled as a reaction, without the Jedi consciously activating it (similar to how it is portrayed in the canon). However, that doesn't automatically mean the Jedi knows where the threat is, just that he knows that there is a threat. At this level, the Jedi gets a 1D bonus to normal initiative rolls, and can roll initiative at -1D against surprise attacks. To get the full regular Danger Sense bonus of automatic initiative, the Jedi has to succeed on a subsequent roll to identify the danger. |
Looking at it some more, the lower level diff (for initial activation) is imo a little TOO low (10 diff) which is a moderately hard roll for 2d.. average roll for a jedi with 3d..
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cunning_kindred
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 164
Location: Southampton, England
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:54 am Post subject: |
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crmcneill wrote:
| Quote: | | That would be the advantage to dropping Control and making it a prerequisite instead of a skill required to activate the power. That would drop one of the MAPs right there. |
On a related note we got rid of the MAP for maintaining powers altogether. We quite like multiple skill rolls to activate certain powers and maneouvres as it can seriously escalate the tension at critical moments but the MAP for maintained powers can become a serious headache. Instead, we simply restrict all Jedi to one maintained power under normal circumstances. If a Jedi attempts to activate more than one power in this manner he must make a willpower or control mind (control skill under your rules) as a reaction. Failure causes all the powers to fail. Since 99% of the time a Jedi only maintains one power this simplifies matter dramatically and when he does try to do more than one thing at once it can be very fun.
| Quote: | | Seems reasonable. Concentration? Enhance Attribute? |
They seem a good selection. You should probably add some simple senses powers as well.
| Quote: | | I've already been working on a version of Danger Sense that opens up the possibility for a Jedi to be ambushed. The power I've written essentially breaks Danger Sense into two sections. The first is a relatively low-level roll that is actually rolled as a reaction, without the Jedi consciously activating it (similar to how it is portrayed in the canon). However, that doesn't automatically mean the Jedi knows where the threat is, just that he knows that there is a threat. At this level, the Jedi gets a 1D bonus to normal initiative rolls, and can roll initiative at -1D against surprise attacks. To get the full regular Danger Sense bonus of automatic initiative, the Jedi has to succeed on a subsequent roll to identify the danger. |
We too have a reactive version of danger sense. It protects against surprise. Only other Force Sensitives can surprise the individual or someone who can bloke Sense skills. It doesn't effect initiative.
On the matter of initiative and the powers that effect it: you and I seem to agree that Jedi definitely perceive things a little ahead of time and that this should be represented in the game. However Initiative is a game mechanic for determining the order of events. Nothing else. Certainly Jedi will often act first but they clearly don't always act first in the films or the expanded universe. Granting them such a dramatic way to override the mechanics of the game is not necessarily going to be the best way to represent this ability in rpg terms.
All I'm only saying is that if you feel this must be represented and you have two different ways to represent it in the game then choosing a bonus to initiative over an all-out override of the rules all other characters must abide by seems the logical route. The Jedi are going to go first most of the time in either case but with the first route the tactical awareness garhkal suggested, cybernetically enhanced opponents, odd aliens and other creatures with "just good initiative" may have a chance of confounding and surprising the Jedi occassionally - probably to good dramatic effect in the game.
garhkal wrote:
| Quote: | | 2 Flumps use fee per galactic standard month... |
This seems a little excessive considering the current economic situation. You wouldn't want to be accused of extortion.  |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| cunning_kindred wrote: | | On a related note we got rid of the MAP for maintaining powers altogether. We quite like multiple skill rolls to activate certain powers and maneouvres as it can seriously escalate the tension at critical moments but the MAP for maintained powers can become a serious headache. Instead, we simply restrict all Jedi to one maintained power under normal circumstances. If a Jedi attempts to activate more than one power in this manner he must make a willpower or control mind (control skill under your rules) as a reaction. Failure causes all the powers to fail. Since 99% of the time a Jedi only maintains one power this simplifies matter dramatically and when he does try to do more than one thing at once it can be very fun. |
Yeah, the MAP rule could've been more specific when applied to Force powers. The thing I've noticed there is that a multi-skill Force power doesn't necessarily have to happen all at once, as in you don't have to make all three rolls in the same round (i.e. if using Affect Mind, you can roll the Control skill one round, the Sense the next, and Alter in the round where the action actually takes place). In that sense, MAPs serve more as a mild Rushing penalty than anything else.
| Quote: | | They seem a good selection. You should probably add some simple senses powers as well. |
Not too sure about that. After all, Luke is seen performing at least basic lightsaber combat technique on-board the Falcon in E4, and that with minimal Force training. He wouldn't've had time to learn the prerequisite skills necessary.
| Quote: | | On the matter of initiative and the powers that effect it: you and I seem to agree that Jedi definitely perceive things a little ahead of time and that this should be represented in the game. However Initiative is a game mechanic for determining the order of events. Nothing else. Certainly Jedi will often act first but they clearly don't always act first in the films or the expanded universe. Granting them such a dramatic way to override the mechanics of the game is not necessarily going to be the best way to represent this ability in rpg terms. |
The RAW clearly state that, although a person has initiative, they may choose not to act first in a round. Battle Mind, as written, reflects that by saying that, while using Battle Mind, the character may select at what point in the order he acts. Could be first, could be last, could be anywhere in between. The only real instance I've seen of Jedi being surprised is when they're being attacked by other Force users. The most obvious example is Vader's ambush of Luke in the corridor on Cloud City.
Ultimately, I think this matter will come down to a matter of personal opinion. I think the Jedi always having the initiative if he has his "guard" up works just fine, and my Danger Sense edit includes the potential for Jedi to be ambushed where it didn't exist before.
| Quote: | | All I'm only saying is that if you feel this must be represented and you have two different ways to represent it in the game then choosing a bonus to initiative over an all-out override of the rules all other characters must abide by seems the logical route. The Jedi are going to go first most of the time in either case but with the first route the tactical awareness garhkal suggested, cybernetically enhanced opponents, odd aliens and other creatures with "just good initiative" may have a chance of confounding and surprising the Jedi occassionally - probably to good dramatic effect in the game. |
Hence the Yuuzhan-Vong, an entire race whose very existence thwarts a lot of the Jedi's advantages. IMO, if we are basing the idea of this power and Danger Sense on precognition, then nothing physical will match it. Lightspeed reflexes or aliens with "just good initiative" are always going to be a step or two behind a being who knows what is going to happen a second or two before it actually does. Only something like a YV, with no connection to the Force, would be capable of completely side-stepping that precognition, and there would have to be special rules written up to reflect that.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cunning_kindred
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 164
Location: Southampton, England
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | IMO, if we are basing the idea of this power and Danger Sense on precognition, then nothing physical will match it. Lightspeed reflexes or aliens with "just good initiative" are always going to be a step or two behind a being who knows what is going to happen a second or two before it actually does. |
I have to admit to being a little confused here. I agree that the Jedi do have access to information about the future.
However, the Force is not infalliable. If you break down what is actually likely to be happening you can see that there are places where this power might fail to help a Jedi.
Yoda says himself that the future is difficult to see. Clearly peeking only seconds into the future will be very accurate but not flawlessly so. So we have a possible imperfection that could come into play when a Jedi fights.
In addition, just because the information is flawless (presuming it is) does not mean that the Jedi will react flawlessly to the information. Have you ever been shocked by something or taken by surprise... there is a moment of delay, an instant of hesitation. A Jedi begins that moment of hesitation before you or I would but that does not mean his moment of hesitation will be over before his oppoent has the opportunity to act.
A Jedi must learn to use the information the Force provides well and though he can enhance his reflexes (which would likely be control I suppose) and he has more information to work with this in no way assures correct action or instant reaction. Maybe he doesn't know what to do to evade his opponent (even though he knows what his opponent will do). If he does take action he might well change what his opponent is going to do as his opponent might respond differently to the Jedi's changing posture.
On top of all this the Jedi is receiving a lot of information, some of which might be contradictory (where two or more possible but highly probable futures provide contradictory information) and he needs to assess which is most likely and how to plan in order to collapse possible events into something he can deal with.
Clearly, all of this provides the Jedi a massive advantage but I fail to see how it is a flawless one. Some people will occassionally act momentarily before the Jedi. Not necessarily surprise him. Both people will roll Initiative first but the Jedi might not be able to completely control the order in which events occur.
Given that there is good reason (no matter our exact opinions about how the Force works but simply good reason and nothing more) to believe that the power will not always be flawless and that a bonus to Initiative (given that winning initiative gives the person essentially what you are talking about) and that a bonus (no matter its size) is going to be a more "balanced" mechanically in the game than an automatic "you win" why select the latter option?
This is in no way a criticism or a "You can't do that, its unbalanced" argument. I'm curious as to what benefit you feel the second option gives you that the first doesn't? It seems clear to me that the first option provides the greater opportunity for interesting stories and smoother game play in the long run - injecting a sense of anticipation into initiative rolls - no matter how good the Jedi he knows that the Force is not flawless, his mastery of it is not flawless and that he can fail. Surely this is an important part of what allows Jedi to avoid Hubris. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| cunning_kindred wrote: | | However, the Force is not infalliable. If you break down what is actually likely to be happening you can see that there are places where this power might fail to help a Jedi. |
You're wrong. The Force itself is infallible, but the Jedi's interpretation of it may not be. This usually takes the form of misinterpreting a vision from Farseeing. Danger Sense, on the other hand, is almost at the instinctual level. There is no time for interpretation, just reaction.
Ultimately, this is going to come down to a matter of personal opinion. IMO, being precognitive doesn't just make the Jedi better than the average person at initiative; it puts them on another level entirely. By the RAW, and by my optional rules, once the Jedi is aware of the threat and has identified it, he is automatically a step ahead of his attacker. He may flub his lightsaber roll to parry the blaster bolt, or otherwise mess up whatever reaction he makes to the attack, but that doesn't mean he didn't know it was coming in advance.
IMO, and IMC, the only way a Jedi who is using Battle Mind or Danger Sense has to roll initiative is if he is facing:
A). Another Force sensitive, with the same precognitive talents and abilities as him
B). A being whose presence does not register on either of those powers, like a Yuuzhan-Vong
C). A powerful Force user, ala Palpatine, who has the ability to actively conceal his presence in the Force.
On everything else, the Jedi gets to pick his place in the action order of the round.
In fact, I would take it even further than that. Suppose a Jedi is surrounded by six bounty hunters with guns. For whatever reason, the bounty hunters get greedy and decide to start a fight with each other, and not the Jedi. If the Jedi was using Danger Sense, he would know that no one was going to attack him, so he could just stand quietly in the middle of the room and do nothing while the bounty hunters shot it out around him. Based on that scenario, if I was GM'ing a round with a mix of non-FS characters plus a Jedi (or other FS), I would require everyone else to declare their actions first, including the NPCs, and then I would allow the Jedi to pick and choose his own place in the order.
This would open up roleplaying possibilities, like allowing Jedi to use his knowledge to avert a fight by choosing to go first and yell to his friends, "STOP! They aren't going to shoot unless we provoke them. I'm going to see what they want."
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| cunning_kindred wrote: | garhkal wrote:
| Quote: | | 2 Flumps use fee per galactic standard month... |
This seems a little excessive considering the current economic situation. You wouldn't want to be accused of extortion. |
Thats the currentl lowered figure.. normally its 4. 
| Quote: | However, the Force is not infalliable. If you break down what is actually likely to be happening you can see that there are places where this power might fail to help a Jedi.
Yoda says himself that the future is difficult to see. Clearly peeking only seconds into the future will be very accurate but not flawlessly so. So we have a possible imperfection that could come into play when a Jedi fights.
In addition, just because the information is flawless (presuming it is) does not mean that the Jedi will react flawlessly to the information. Have you ever been shocked by something or taken by surprise... there is a moment of delay, an instant of hesitation. A Jedi begins that moment of hesitation before you or I would but that does not mean his moment of hesitation will be over before his oppoent has the opportunity to act.
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Very true CK.. A jedi can be stumped by what he receives.. or not.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Very true CK.. A jedi can be stumped by what he receives.. or not. |
Ok, how about this as an optional rule for my Danger Sense power (which I am in the process of working in to my Battle Mind Power)
Optional Rule 2:
The sensory input of the precognition that is at the core of Danger Sense can be overwhelming to an inexperienced Jedi, and may cause him to incorrectly identify the threat. If he fails his Identify Danger roll by 10 or more, he loses all advantages against the threat, and must react as normal, either by rolling a normal initiative roll, or by being caught flat-footed by a surprise attack. In story terms, he is still aware of the danger, but his misinterpretation of the prescient warning has him looking in the wrong direction.
For a reference, I would refer to the incident with Mara Jade in Dark Force Rising. Even though she had an instinctive gift for Danger Sense, she was still tricked into identifying a decoy as a threat, allowing the actual threat to ambush her. However, this wouldn't be something the more experienced Jedi would fall prey to.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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DoubtBreak
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | If the Jedi was using Danger Sense, he would know that no one was going to attack him, so he could just stand quietly in the middle of the room and do nothing while the bounty hunters shot it out around him. |
That's only true if all of the bounty hunters have perfect aim. Depending on how they're arranged, the Jedi is probably providing partial cover against at least a few of these attacks- meaning he (she?) could be hit by attacks that are aimed at someone else.
I'm not saying this just to criticize. I've actually been pondering the problem of how to address this in my rules as well. Similar situations have come up more than once for me.
Maybe I should have posted this in the Danger Sense thread.... |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Very true CK.. A jedi can be stumped by what he receives.. or not. |
Ok, how about this as an optional rule for my Danger Sense power (which I am in the process of working in to my Battle Mind Power)
Optional Rule 2:
The sensory input of the precognition that is at the core of Danger Sense can be overwhelming to an inexperienced Jedi, and may cause him to incorrectly identify the threat. If he fails his Identify Danger roll by 10 or more, he loses all advantages against the threat, and must react as normal, either by rolling a normal initiative roll, or by being caught flat-footed by a surprise attack. In story terms, he is still aware of the danger, but his misinterpretation of the prescient warning has him looking in the wrong direction.
For a reference, I would refer to the incident with Mara Jade in Dark Force Rising. Even though she had an instinctive gift for Danger Sense, she was still tricked into identifying a decoy as a threat, allowing the actual threat to ambush her. However, this wouldn't be something the more experienced Jedi would fall prey to. |
I would prefer that BE the complication when the jedi gets a 1 on the wild die...
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I would prefer that BE the complication when the jedi gets a 1 on the wild die... |
I can accept that a complication like that would be the result of inexperience, but not pure bad luck.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| DoubtBreak wrote: | That's only true if all of the bounty hunters have perfect aim. Depending on how they're arranged, the Jedi is probably providing partial cover against at least a few of these attacks- meaning he (she?) could be hit by attacks that are aimed at someone else.
I'm not saying this just to criticize. I've actually been pondering the problem of how to address this in my rules as well. Similar situations have come up more than once for me.
Maybe I should have posted this in the Danger Sense thread.... |
The conversation seems to have migrated over here anyway.
But Danger Sense is the kind of power that would detect even accidental danger, like being hit by a blaster bolt that was aimed at someone else.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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cunning_kindred
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 164
Location: Southampton, England
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You're wrong. The Force itself is infallible |
When I was referrring to the Force in my post I meant the Jedi-Force interaction was not infalliable. The Force itself is, in my opinion, neither Falliable nor Infalliable. It has vast information and encompasses a great deal of interconnectivity between life form but it lacks motivation or desire and therefore intent or action. It is therefore not capable of being infalliable. In my opinion 
| Quote: | | The sensory input of the precognition that is at the core of Danger Sense can be overwhelming to an inexperienced Jedi, and may cause him to incorrectly identify the threat. If he fails his Identify Danger roll by 10 or more, he loses all advantages against the threat, and must react as normal, either by rolling a normal initiative roll, or by being caught flat-footed by a surprise attack. In story terms, he is still aware of the danger, but his misinterpretation of the prescient warning has him looking in the wrong direction. |
This seems a little complicated. Your aim, I understood, was to keep things simple and fast. So, if I understand correctly, the effect of danger sense in its passive form is to avoid surprise and grant some small bonus to initiative while the benefit of Identify Danger is some information regarding the future and control over the initiative.
If you instead had a reactive danger sense power that granted a bonus equal to the user's sense or control (whichever is lower) to his Perception for the purposes of initiative than the initiative roll which everyone has to make anyway effectively becomes the Identify Danger power by default. If the Jedi makes the highest perception total he has successfully assimilated the improved data into a schematic of the conflict which allows him greater control then the other combatants - an almost (but not quiete) foregone conclusion considering the scale of the effect.
This isn't really a power I would use in my own game. I think the extent to which you see Danger Sense's effects differs slightly from my own but it does seem a more efficient way to encompass the effect you seem to want in your game.
| Quote: | | In fact, I would take it even further than that. Suppose a Jedi is surrounded by six bounty hunters with guns. For whatever reason, the bounty hunters get greedy and decide to start a fight with each other, and not the Jedi. If the Jedi was using Danger Sense, he would know that no one was going to attack him, so he could just stand quietly in the middle of the room and do nothing while the bounty hunters shot it out around him. Based on that scenario, if I was GM'ing a round with a mix of non-FS characters plus a Jedi (or other FS), I would require everyone else to declare their actions first, including the NPCs, and then I would allow the Jedi to pick and choose his own place in the order. |
This strikes me as a little more than the normal danger sense effect. Here you are providing the Jedi with actual real information about events on a conscious level and allowing him to make his decisions based on that information. In my own game we have a power called "Search your Feelings" which allows a Jedi to take an action and if successful know the general consequences of an action or decision up to about a minute into the future. Its use is a wonderful way to represent a mindful Jedi's approach to the events around him.
On the matter of Danger Sense and its overall effects, drifting a little into philosophy, doesn't it strike anyone as a little bit unconfortable. If danger sense were as proficient as crmcneill seems to think it is then a Jedi would see not only the actions of others but his own actions. He would see the whole battle and in fact know before hand not only how he will be assaulted but also how he will choose to respond. The only way he could have all the information to flawlessly conceive the combat would be if he also knew exactly, up front, how he would be involved.
In other words, the Force would offer guidance in the form of: you must act in this manner in order to attain this outcome. If you do not act in this manner than the future you have foreseen will not come to pass and you will be walking blindly into a future you cannot anticipate. If you do as the Force shows you you know the outcome but you cannot choose the outcome, only foresee what the Force tells you will come to pass. You must choose between ignoring the visions the Force offers completely (and foregoing the power it grants) and your ability to choose your actions at all. Jedi could be said to have litterally surrendered their free will to the Force. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | If you instead had a reactive danger sense power that granted a bonus equal to the user's sense or control (whichever is lower) to his Perception for the purposes of initiative than the initiative roll which everyone has to make anyway effectively becomes the Identify Danger power by default. If the Jedi makes the highest perception total he has successfully assimilated the improved data into a schematic of the conflict which allows him greater control then the other combatants - an almost (but not quiete) foregone conclusion considering the scale of the effect.
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Hmm..
Or rather, if one makes the diff for the 'reactionary' danger sense, they get to take the best of their sense or perception for initiative.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Quote: | If you instead had a reactive danger sense power that granted a bonus equal to the user's sense or control (whichever is lower) to his Perception for the purposes of initiative than the initiative roll which everyone has to make anyway effectively becomes the Identify Danger power by default. If the Jedi makes the highest perception total he has successfully assimilated the improved data into a schematic of the conflict which allows him greater control then the other combatants - an almost (but not quiete) foregone conclusion considering the scale of the effect.
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Hmm..
Or rather, if one makes the diff for the 'reactionary' danger sense, they get to take the best of their sense or perception for initiative. |
Simplicity would be just sticking with the WEG rule that a Jedi who succeeds on his Danger Sense roll always has initiative. I'm just throwing out options because you guys asked for it. If it were up to me, I'd just stick with my version of Danger Sense as currently modified.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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