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Inquisitor1138
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 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:22 am Post subject: ={SWTOR}= The Gravestone |
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On a lark, i checked the Wookiepedia page for The Gravestone to see if they had an official Length for it yet; they don't.
But they do have this concept art with a scale sketch, which has the Gravestone at about 3.5 to 4 YT-1300s long...
https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=208826#208826
| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | with 37.38 meters as a corrected length for the Falcon, it shouldn't be too hard to work out the escape craft's dimensions. I agree it would make the Falcon 40-something meters. |
3.5 * 37.38 meters = 130.83 meters
4 * 37.38 meters = 149.52 meters
That's a fair bit smaller than my best estimates which are in the ≈250 to 350 meter range.....
Thoughts?
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:47 pm Post subject: That's no yacht... |
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Okay, i've gotten back to this & did some pixel counting.
Millennium Falcon Length 19 pixels = 37.38 meters
Millennium Falcon Height 6 pixels = 11.804210526315789473684210526316 or 11.805 meters
Gravestone Length 65 pixels = 127.87894736842105263157894736842 or 127.88 meters
Gravestone Height 65 pixels when Omnicannon is ready to use/fire = 127.87894736842105263157894736842 or 127.88 meters
and from the 2nd insert detail
Gravestone Length 347 pixels = 127.87894736842105263157894736842 or 127.88 meters
Gravestone Height 211 pixels when Omnicannon is offline = 77.759244653420294251478841195207 or 77.76 meters
Gravestone Hull Beam/Width 113 pixels = 41.643576520552100712877294099803 or 41.65 meters
Gravestone Overall Beam/Width 186 pixels = 68.546064007280448961019262854543 or 68.55 meters
This makes The Gravestone a Corvette-sized Superweapon/Starship. A far cry from its great-great-Grrrrrreat-grandkid, the 2,400-meter Starhawk-class Battleship!
shootingwomprats & CRMcNeill have interesting conversions for the Starhawk, which i imagine i'll be chewing on for a while.
FFG ship stat conversion & CRMcNeill's Starhawk-class Battleship.
As for the Gravestone's other weapons, it has a massive cannon in the forward arc, and a twin turbolaser turret on the starboard side that covers fore, starboard & aft.
I'll be rewatching the space battles cutscenes to gauge the relative strength & effectiveness of these weapons & if there is any smaller weapons for point defense.
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Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Count Dooku: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor. |
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 1:10 am Post subject: SWD6 Legend Frank Bonura |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | Frank Bonura posted the following on the Star Wars D6 Facebook page. It's the length conversion chart they use over at the Star Wars Deckplans Alliance:If a freighter's WEG length is < 53.4 meters long: 140%
If a freighter's WEG length is 53.5 to 106.7 meters long: 120%
If a freighter's WEG length is 106.8 to 213.5 meters long: 110%
If a freighter's WEG length is >= 213.6 meters long: No change
So, take the listed WEG length of a ship, compare that to the above list, then multiply accordingly.
For example, the 26.7 meters listed for a YT-1300 falls into the 140% range, so multiply 26.7 by 1.4 to get 37.38 meters.
Obviously most freighters that characters will be using fall into the 140% range.
EDIT: Added "WEG length" to the above table, to clarify which length to use as a base in (the EU being what it is, a ship can easily have multiple "official" lengths). |
i'm boosting this again in my War on Ignorance, sharing Frank's wisdom in user-friendly Knowledge Bombs in the twin posts i made at r/swtor & r/StarWarsShips. i truly cannot thank Frank & company for the work they've done!
i also have an image or two that should help better illustrate my point.
1.
the fullsize pic is here
https://preview.redd.it/the-gravestone-true-size-more-v0-11m7oiolz0ce1.jpg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52e40fdbcb876701ba37910657887da8c60755c0
2.
3.
4.
5. Gravestone_750x450px.jpg
6. Gravestone_750x468px.png
Thoughts?
_________________
Facing all that you fear will free you from yourself.
The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Count Dooku: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor.
Last edited by Inquisitor1138 on Sat Jan 11, 2025 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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FVBonura
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| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 10:00 am Post subject: Re: SWD6 Legend Frank Bonura |
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| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | i'm boosting this again in my War on Ignorance, sharing Frank's wisdom in user-friendly Knowledge Bombs in the twin posts i made at r/swtor & r/StarWarsShips. i truly cannot thank Frank & company for he work they've done! |
Thank you Inquisitor1138.
+40% for light freighters is definitely a major improvement but my reconstruction of Robert Brown's measurements have indicated about +50% might be a better fit thanks to Harrison Ford's interview. If you have time, you might want to read what I said in this thread.
https://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7209&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=41
I have a bunch of Millenium Falcon blueprints/schematics, from many sources, on one sheet trying to precisely measure them to get an accurate percentile number that will work and allow a Wookiee (Peter Mayhew) to enter the Falcon's Cockpit/Bridge quickly as we see in the movies/books. +40% is safe but it may be even bigger.
My recommendation: Figure out the biggest ship that can fit/land inside the Gravestone. Make sure that ship is the right size first and then only make the Gravestone big enough to fit that ship. This way you don't have to resize a second time.
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raithyn
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| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: SWD6 Legend Frank Bonura |
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| FVBonura wrote: | | My recommendation: Figure out the biggest ship that can fit/land inside the Gravestone. Make sure that ship is the right size first and then only make the Gravestone big enough to fit that ship. This way you don't have to resize a second time. |
I think part of the problem with assigning a size through any method, but especially this one is that in the SWTOR MMO, player ships are the size of plot. Most of them seem to be significantly larger when exploring the interior map than when walking around them in a docking bay. (The opposite is usually true for capital-scale ships so the player can get between interests points in a reasonable time.) This appears to apply to the Gravestone but I didn't think anyone other than the devs is quite sure about that.
Honestly, make it the size you want it to be and just keep it consistent internal to your game. It's a niche enough reference that practically everyone will roll with it no questions asked. |
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:04 am Post subject: Re: SWD6 Legend Frank Bonura |
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| FVBonura wrote: | | Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | i'm boosting this again in my War on Ignorance, sharing Frank's wisdom in user-friendly Knowledge Bombs in the twin posts i made at r/swtor & r/StarWarsShips. i truly cannot thank Frank & company for he work they've done! |
Thank you Inquisitor1138.
+40% for light freighters is definitely a major improvement but my reconstruction of Robert Brown's measurements have indicated about +50% might be a better fit thanks to Harrison Ford's interview. If you have time, you might want to read what I said in this thread.
https://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7209&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=41
I have a bunch of Millenium Falcon blueprints/schematics, from many sources, on one sheet trying to precisely measure them to get an accurate percentile number that will work and allow a Wookiee (Peter Mayhew) to enter the Falcon's Cockpit/Bridge quickly as we see in the movies/books. +40% is safe but it may be even bigger.
My recommendation: Figure out the biggest ship that can fit/land inside the Gravestone. Make sure that ship is the right size first and then only make the Gravestone big enough to fit that ship. This way you don't have to resize a second time. |
Fascinating read & Food for Thought! I'll be following this thread & meditate on your findings. Good stuff!
While i am reluctant to re-revise the 40% rescaling, you may be right. Again.
While the KotOR ships were not WEG's handiwork, their erroneous 26.7 meters for the Falcon clearly influenced the decision to make the Ebon Hawk 24 meters. In "Ebon Hawk & Millennium Falcon sizes & issues" i shared my finding that the Ebon Hawk was ≈42 meters long internally, so ≈44 or 45 meters long overall. 87.5% bigger than its 'official' size.
Revising the Quartermaster-class Supply Carrier by 1.875 ✖ 45 meters = 84.375 meters fits the art for the ship much better! Since there's no clear windows to indicate a cockpit or bridge.
Thank you, FVBonura! I'm still hammering out the details, but the Gravestone is definitely in the corvette-frigate range.
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Facing all that you fear will free you from yourself.
The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Count Dooku: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor. |
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FVBonura
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Again thank you Inquisitor1138...
Most player's don't care and fussing over the size of ships will only enrich a small aspect of the RPG. Having said that, there is a unique satisfaction when you can share a graphic of the player's ship with shuttles and fighters loaded in the hold and they can see the relationship of how those vehicles fit inside their ship.
Movie productions are about creating illusions which is why the "full size" Falcon cockpit set has footwells for clearance and per Harrison Ford you will never see Chewbacca run into the cockpit and sit down on film. Likewise the writers at WEG were hopelessly in a hurry and the average stat block began looking at the 26.7 meter YT-1300. Almost all of my chronological studies will isolate a mistake at an early publication and it is copy/pasted in all subsequent books.
If the problems of size and fitment are to be solved, that responsibility falls to us GMs. We begin with the pilot/crew, make them fit, and work our way up nesting larger and larger ships. It's a labor of love.
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:44 pm Post subject: much Love! |
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| FVBonura wrote: | <snip>
If the problems of size and fitment are to be solved, that responsibility falls to us GMs. We begin with the pilot/crew, make them fit, and work our way up nesting larger and larger ships. It's a labor of love. |
That it is, bro! That it is!
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Facing all that you fear will free you from yourself.
The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Count Dooku: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor. |
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