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Inquisitor1138
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 Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:44 pm Post subject: Winter Soldiers; Clones & Aging |
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So, no 'fix' was ever made to stop the accelerated aging of the Clone Troopers.
This brings me to the Question: Which is better, cryogenic suspended animation or freezing them in carbonite? Thawing them out for duty when needed. |
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Dr. Bidlo
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Just keep a good supply in the freezer and pop them in the microwave for two and a half minutes on each side.
My vote is cryogenic suspension. I know Carbonite freezing has been covered in other sources, but when it was used in ESB it was not intended for living organisms and there was a question as to whether Han would even survive the process. |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | Just keep a good supply in the freezer and pop them in the microwave for two and a half minutes on each side.
My vote is cryogenic suspension. I know Carbonite freezing has been covered in other sources, but when it was used in ESB it was not intended for living organisms and there was a question as to whether Han would even survive the process. |
I believe the retcon or post hoc explanation is that the Cloud City facility wasn't really rated for living people, but there were ones better suited to it (qv The Mandalorian).
Under those conditions, I'd probably go with carbonite... it's more Star Wars-y, AND works without anything once its done... you can find someone frozen in carbonite from 20,000 years ago and they've just been sitting there as a coffee table with no power.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Does carbonite freezing need power to KEEP someone frozen?
What about cryogenic freezing?
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Does carbonite freezing need power to KEEP someone frozen?
What about cryogenic freezing? |
The Tales of the Jedi comic showed people frozen in carbonite without any mechanism needed to maintain carbonite freezing.
Without power, a cryogenic unit will fail.
So, in short, Carbon Freezing as shown in The Mandalorian & The Clone Wars, is safer than cryogenic freezing.
And now i seem to have my answer! Thanks everyone! |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | Does carbonite freezing need power to KEEP someone frozen?
What about cryogenic freezing? |
The Tales of the Jedi comic showed people frozen in carbonite without any mechanism needed to maintain carbonite freezing.
Without power, a cryogenic unit will fail.
So, in short, Carbon Freezing as shown in The Mandalorian & The Clone Wars, is safer than cryogenic freezing.
And now i seem to have my answer! Thanks everyone! |
A couple notes, because they floated through my head while answering:
Folks will recall that there were flashing lights on the side of Han's block. I figure that is the built in defreezer/life support check... not necessary, and can die without affecting the carbon freezing. It might also have come from the repulsorlift truck they had him on.
I'm 100% team carbonite.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Soldiers; Clones & Aging |
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| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | So, no 'fix' was ever made to stop the accelerated aging of the Clone Troopers.
This brings me to the Question: Which is better, cryogenic suspended animation or freezing them in carbonite? Thawing them out for duty when needed. |
Carbonite is the Star War version of cryogenic freezing. Age acceleration was an intentional feature of the Republic army and not a flaw that needed fixing. It was possible to clone without age acceleration.
The purposes of the clones were to fight in a manufactured war and for Palpatine to have an army whose loyalty could be genetically mandated so they could execute Order 66 at the end of the war. The purpose of the genetic acceleration was so that the first batches would be old enough to fight in the war and execute Order 66 according to the Sith timeframe. Once the clones killed most of the Jedi and the Empire could begin, their primary purpose was completed.
Cloning (and freezing) is presumably more expensive than recruitment and conscription, so it seems that as the cloned stormtroopers aged, they would just be replaced. The Empire would need constant security, and I don't think Palpatine was really worried about any sudden urgent need for more soldiers that he could just unfreeze. He had until the Death Star was ready to beef up his forces to the point they would be needed when Palpatine really revealed to the galaxy how evil he was by having the threat of any planet instantly being blown up.
But the winter stormtroopers idea is still an intriguing one. Not for off and on, unfreezing and refreezing, but just if Palpatine had a unit frozen for a rainy day, like just in case an unexpected alien invasion happened. And what if they were unfrozen and their biochip no longer worked to ensure loyalty?
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Soldiers; Clones & Aging |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | Does carbonite freezing need power to KEEP someone frozen?
What about cryogenic freezing? |
The Tales of the Jedi comic showed people frozen in carbonite without any mechanism needed to maintain carbonite freezing.
Without power, a cryogenic unit will fail.
So, in short, Carbon Freezing as shown in The Mandalorian & The Clone Wars, is safer than cryogenic freezing.
And now i seem to have my answer! Thanks everyone! |
A couple notes, because they floated through my head while answering:
Folks will recall that there were flashing lights on the side of Han's block. I figure that is the built in defreezer/life support check... not necessary, and can die without affecting the carbon freezing. It might also have come from the repulsorlift truck they had him on.
I'm 100% team carbonite. |
Valid points. My understanding is that if properly frozen, they are perfectly preserved, and would not need a unit to maintain preservation. KotET introduced a new hazard with carbon freezing; carbonite poisoning.
So a unit that can validate how successful/botched a particular freezing was is important. Having said units also have the unfreezing capability in the same unit is a logical efficiency.
Unless i am mistaken, the repulsorlift was also built into the unit.
| Whill wrote: | | Inquisitor1138 wrote: | So, no 'fix' was ever made to stop the accelerated aging of the Clone Troopers.
This brings me to the Question: Which is better, cryogenic suspended animation or freezing them in carbonite? Thawing them out for duty when needed. |
Carbonite is the Star War version of cryogenic freezing. Age acceleration was an intentional feature of the Republic army and not a flaw that needed fixing. It was possible to clone without age acceleration.
The purposes of the clones were to fight in a manufactured war and for Palpatine to have an army whose loyalty could be genetically mandated so they could execute Order 66 at the end of the war. The purpose of the genetic acceleration was so that the first batches would be old enough to fight in the war and execute Order 66 according to the Sith timeframe. Once the clones killed most of the Jedi and the Empire could begin, their primary purpose was completed.
Cloning (and freezing) is presumably more expensive than recruitment and conscription, so it seems that as the cloned stormtroopers aged, they would just be replaced. The Empire would need constant security, and I don't think Palpatine was really worried about any sudden urgent need for more soldiers that he could just unfreeze. He had until the Death Star was ready to beef up his forces to the point they would be needed when Palpatine really revealed to the galaxy how evil he was by having the threat of any planet instantly being blown up.
But the winter stormtroopers idea is still an intriguing one. Not for off and on, unfreezing and refreezing, but just if Palpatine had a unit frozen for a rainy day, like just in case an unexpected alien invasion happened. And what if they were unfrozen and their biochip no longer worked to ensure loyalty? |
I agree. That is an, interesting idea... |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | Does carbonite freezing need power to KEEP someone frozen?
What about cryogenic freezing? |
The Tales of the Jedi comic showed people frozen in carbonite without any mechanism needed to maintain carbonite freezing.
Without power, a cryogenic unit will fail.
So, in short, Carbon Freezing as shown in The Mandalorian & The Clone Wars, is safer than cryogenic freezing.
And now i seem to have my answer! Thanks everyone! |
How cannon is the comics though?
WE saw on Hans carbonite, an electronic console on the side that blinked every now and then while leia was looking at it, BEFORE she pressed some buttons to defrost him.. So that to ME, shows it has some power to it.
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Cryogenics requires a purpose-built freezer to keep the person frozen.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Carbon-freezing & https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Carbonite describe | Carbon-freezing wrote: | | Carbon-freezing was the process by which liquid carbonite was flash-frozen into a solid state, encasing materials for transport in a strong metal alloy.[1] Such materials could even include sentient beings. |
It was not cold to the touch, so refrigeration as we understand it is not necessary to maintain the 'frozen' state.
The comic may be EU/Legends but it is still canon to me, and there is Canon evidence supporting it Clone Wars, when Anakin, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan, Rex & Tarkin (& a few others) are put in Carbon-freezing to get smuggled past Lifeform-sensors. So there is no biological activity to be detected.
So as it stands now, no apparatus is needed to maintain either the 'frozen state' of the carbonite, nor to maintain 'Life Functions'. The units shown serve 2 functions; determining/displaying status off what/who frozen, and later thawing them.
If you want carbonite to work differently in your SWU feel free. Blinking lights is not sufficient evidence to me, as they appear to be nothing more than a status display, like computers & cell phones have. There is nothing in canon at this time, to indicate Carbon-freezing needs power to maintain its 'frozen' state. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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If it was that easy to carbonite people, why then did vader seem skittish about using it on luke, so tested it on han, AND Boba seem to worry about if han survived?
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | If it was that easy to carbonite people, why then did vader seem skittish about using it on luke, so tested it on han, AND Boba seem to worry about if han survived? |
As I mentioned above, I think it's a retcon or post hoc explanation (take your pick) that the Cloud City facility wasn't really rated for people... a people-rated facility works at different tolerances, and Cloud City was more industrial.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh.. So its fluffonopolus...
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Ahh.. So its fluffonopolus... |
...what?
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Handwavium? IE Bull, that one of the new developers did, either because A) HE never even SAW the original trilogy, or B) Didn't CARE about that continuity issue..
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