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Dr. Bidlo Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021 Posts: 440 Location: Arizona, USA
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:06 pm Post subject: Movement House Rules |
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This thread is a spin off of a discussion of the Movement rules from the 2E R&E RAW and how, while easy an convenient, they result a bit of a jarring staccato of motion by forcing all mo events into the span of a single action.this means an average human could travel up to 40 meters in the blink of an eye during a single action within a 5 second round. I have been working on some of my own house rules, but wanted to open discussions to see if anyone else has been working on any house rules for Movement. I will share what I have after some initial discussion. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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I have some thoughts here, but I don't consider them fully formed enough to be worth posting. This post is mainly to help- me find this topic again in the future should that change. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10434 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:41 am Post subject: Re: Movement House Rules |
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Dr. Bidlo wrote: | This thread is a spin off of a discussion of the Movement rules from the 2E R&E RAW and how, while easy an convenient, they result a bit of a jarring staccato of motion by forcing all mo events into the span of a single action.this means an average human could travel up to 40 meters in the blink of an eye during a single action within a 5 second round. I have been working on some of my own house rules, but wanted to open discussions to see if anyone else has been working on any house rules for Movement. I will share what I have after some initial discussion. |
Since it seems we have similar ideas about movement, I'm really excited to see your write-up.
Maybe I need to write mine down too. I never have because it involves mental math I've always just done in my head. Maybe I also need to make a game system/edition evolution post like I have done for a few other things. That could be a lot of work. _________________ *
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Dr. Bidlo Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021 Posts: 440 Location: Arizona, USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Here is my first attempt to fully write out my house rules for Movement. I used the language from the RAW to the greatest degree possible (inconsistent as it is at times) and added or slightly amended where needed to explain my house rules. This version applies specifically to characters and after I get the text for these rules refined and finalized, I will do the same for vehicle movement.
Realistic Movement and Movement During Actions
Cautious Movement: This is a slow walk for a character: she moves at half her Move either at the same time as any non-movement action or as a movement action (a human with a Move of 10 would move five meters).
In Very Easy, Easy, and Moderate terrains, cautious movement is a "free action": it's not considered an action and the character doesn't have to roll her running skill.
In Difficult, Very Difficult, and Heroic terrains, roll the character's running skill, but reduce the difficulty one level (Very Difficult terrain is Difficult to cross; Moderate terrain is Easy to cross.)
Cruising Movement: Cruising movement is walking speed for a character (a human with a Move of 10 would move up to 10 meters).
The character may move at her Move speed at the same time as any non-movement action or as a movement action.
Moving at cruising speed counts as an0 action, but the character can automatically make the move for Very Easy, Easy, and Moderate terrains. A character must roll her running skill for Difficult, Very Difficult, and Heroic terrains.
High Speed: High speed movement is running for a character - she moves twice her Move speed (a human with a Move of 10 would move up to 20 meters).
The character may start a high speed movement at the same time as any non-movement action as long as she has a least two actions remaining or as a movement action. The character must move her full Move speed (a human with a Move of 10 would move up to 10 meters) during the action in which she starts moving.
During the character's next action, she must move again any distance up to her Move speed (a human with a Move of 10 would move up to 10 meters) and may take an action at the same time if she has any remaining actions.
High speed movement uses one action even though it is taken over the course of two actions and at the same time as one or more non-movement actions.
The character must roll her running skill for Very Easy, Easy, or Moderate terrain. When moving at high speed, Difficult, Very Difficult, and Heroic terrains, increase the difficulty by one level: Difficult terrain becomes Very Difficult to cross, Very Difficult terrain becomes Heroic to cross.
All-Out: All-out movement is running at an all-out speed for a character - she moves at four times her Move speed (a human with a Move of 10 would move up to 40 meters).
The character must move her Move speed during first and second actions (a human with a Move of 10 would move 10 meters during each action).
The character must move any distance up to her Move speed during third and fourth actions (a human with a Move of 10 would move up to 10 meters).
All-out movement uses one action even though it is taken over the course of several actions.
Characters making "all-out" movement may not do anything else in the round, including dodge or parry!
Increase the difficulty one level for Very Easy, Easy, and Moderate terrains. Increase the difficulty two levels for Difficult, Very Difficult, or Heroic terrains. |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14212 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Seems nice.. Are you going to edit the "characters can only speed up or slow down, to 'speed' levels? _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Dr. Bidlo Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021 Posts: 440 Location: Arizona, USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:58 am Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | Seems nice.. Are you going to edit the "characters can only speed up or slow down, to 'speed' levels? |
My intent was for this text to replace the text in RAW with the identical headings, so the speeding up and slowing down two levels in RAW does not change. If I added anything more it would merely be repeating the RAW.
EDIT: I really should still go back and replace the examples in the RAW, updating them to the new house rules, though. I will do that when I get some time soon. |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14212 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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So looking at it..
Example A: Players John, Jerry and Karl.
Enemiies are a six pack of storm troopers, range 45 yards.
Jerry declares 3 actions (move cruise, shoot twice).
Karl declares 3 actions (move double speed, shoot twice)
John declares an all out move.
Rebels win.
Action 1; ALL three pcs, move 10ft, John is only one needing to roll since the terrain is moderate. BOTH KARL and Jerry can also Shoot, WHILE moving? _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Dr. Bidlo Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021 Posts: 440 Location: Arizona, USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | So looking at it..
Example A: Players John, Jerry and Karl.
Enemiies are a six pack of storm troopers, range 45 yards.
Jerry declares 3 actions (move cruise, shoot twice).
Karl declares 3 actions (move double speed, shoot twice)
John declares an all out move.
Rebels win.
Action 1; ALL three pcs, move 10ft, John is only one needing to roll since the terrain is moderate. BOTH KARL and Jerry can also Shoot, WHILE moving? |
Yes, per my house rules, that is allowed. The only point of minor clarification that the characters would only technically declare the number of actions (as has been recently clarified to me by a post from Whill), so Jerry and Karl declare 3 actions and John declares 1 action.
During his first action, Jerry uses an action to shoot, but also moves 10 meters (cruise) and still has one more action left to use during his 'second' action.
During his first action, Karl uses an action to shoot and moves the first 10 meters of his high speed movement. He still has one action left so during his 'second' action turn, he could shoot again and move up to 10 more meters to finish his Move, assuming he didn't get shot and prevented from taking any additional actions. If he were wounded during the stormtroopers' first action,, for example, he would not be able to move the additional 10 meters.
During his first action, John rolls his running skill for the all-out novement, but only moves 10 meters. During second actions, he moves an additional 10 meters (still based on the one running roll). Now at this point, Jerry and Karl have already used up all three actions even though they have only had two 'action' turns. Let's also assume the storm troopers have also used all their actions. So John can just finish his Move up to 20 additional meters because there are no other player or NPC actions left to play out.
I dud develop these rules while mistakenly using the Blue Vader rules for rounds and declaration of actions and it is a little easier to explain under that format, but it works fine under 2E R&E round rules as well. |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14212 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Copy that. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10434 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:07 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Bidlo wrote: | Realistic Movement and Movement During Actions... |
I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner. I needed to get into the correct headspace for reading this and replying.
This completely maintains the innovation of R&E over Blue Vader (one action/MAP for all movement in a round instead of multiple "cruising speed actions") while addressing the unrealism that R&E's innovation brought into movement (all of a round's movement taking place in the space of a single action).
I can say that I also allow for everything in your system working the same way. It is amazing that someone else came to the some of the same house rules my weird brain came up with. Thanks for sharing this.
Your system is really is the basis of what I do, but I also have some options beyond this. Let's say a character who had declared multiple actions had to do something on their first action that was impossible to do while moving, and then on a second action declares movement. I will take the highest number of actions declared by any character that round in the first turn to determine fractional components of that round that are remaining. That tells me how much time is left in the round for the character's movement, and then what distance they want to travel will determine the speed, or what speed they want to travel will determine the distance they can move, considering that they don't have the full time remaining in the round. So they may have to move a higher speed or not move as much distance as they would have if they had started on the first turn of the round, because they don't have enough time to do so. This is based on the premise that moving the full distance for each speed requires the whole round. _________________ *
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Dr. Bidlo Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021 Posts: 440 Location: Arizona, USA
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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Whill wrote: | Dr. Bidlo wrote: | Realistic Movement and Movement During Actions... |
I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner. I needed to get into the correct headspace for reading this and replying.
This completely maintains the innovation of R&E over Blue Vader (one action/MAP for all movement in a round instead of multiple "cruising speed actions") while addressing the unrealism that R&E's innovation brought into movement (all of a round's movement taking place in the space of a single action).
I can say that I also allow for everything in your system working the same way. It is amazing that someone else came to the some of the same house rules my weird brain came up with. Thanks for sharing this.
Your system is really is the basis of what I do, but I also have some options beyond this. Let's say a character who had declared multiple actions had to do something on their first action that was impossible to do while moving, and then on a second action declares movement. I will take the highest number of actions declared by any character that round in the first turn to determine fractional components of that round that are remaining. That tells me how much time is left in the round for the character's movement, and then what distance they want to travel will determine the speed, or what speed they want to travel will determine the distance they can move, considering that they don't have the full time remaining in the round. So they may have to move a higher speed or not move as much distance as they would have if they had started on the first turn of the round, because they don't have enough time to do so. This is based on the premise that moving the full distance for each speed requires the whole round. |
Great minds... it is easy enough to do, but very difficult to describe and cover all the scenarios possible with the rules.
My rule tried to address that by requiring an action in reserve before starting a Fast movement. So, you could in theory do a few actions first before starting the fast movement. Since there are not a fixed number of actions in any given round, I have allowed movements to play out fully even if their are not other actions remaining from other players or NPCs.
This does bring to mind a new house rule idea - one round = 5 seconds = 5 actions max. Maybe??? |
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10434 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Here's the thing about the round. It is not exactly five seconds. It is up to five seconds. If all the actions taken in a round shouldn't take five seconds, then for dramatic reasons the round should end and move on to the next round. I've still maintained the premise that moving the full distance for each speed requires the whole round for simplicity's sake, despite the fact that rounds are variable lengths of time. I think of the highest number of actions declared in a round determining the 'time segments' of that round, so the fraction of time each turn of actions takes is variable.
But for any GMs that have movement rules like ours and are set on limiting the number of actions in a round, I would say four actions based on All-Out being four moves in Blue Vader. However I personally am fine with the variability.
In my SWU, a "round" is an in-universe colloquialism for 1-5 seconds. So like a "moment". _________________ *
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14212 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:46 am Post subject: |
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I've never understood the whole "Five sec" thing for rounds, especially with someone supposedly dashing 40 yards.. That's almost olympic level sprinting... _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10434 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | I've never understood the whole "Five sec" thing for rounds, especially with someone supposedly dashing 40 yards.. That's almost olympic level sprinting... |
Or cinematic level sprinting. I presume you are referring to All-Out speed (x4).
NFL combine records show players in many different positions often hitting 40 yards in under 5 seconds, but yes, 40 meters is 43.7445 yards so even more.
If the realism of the movement system is a problem for you, there are simple solutions:
• You can change the typical human Move to 8 or 9, so All-Out (x4) is less distance in meters.
• You can change All-Out to only x3 the Move instead of x4 for running.
• You can add time to the round, giving it a 6 second max instead of 5 seconds. _________________ *
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Dr. Bidlo Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021 Posts: 440 Location: Arizona, USA
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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Whill wrote: | ...
• You can change All-Out to only x3 the Move instead of x4 for running.
... |
Those are all great suggestions. If I had a problem with it, I would probably go with all-out speed being 3 x instead of 4 x. |
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