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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:10 pm Post subject: Damage from Drive Trail / Exhaust |
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Tangential to this discussion, do you think the drive thrust on starships and vehicles should inflict damage, and if so, how much?
My first thought would be to have it as a function of Hull, 1E Space Speed Code (say 1/3 the total of the two dice codes combined), plus a modifier for whichever Speed it’s going (-1D for Cautious, +1D for Full and +2D for All-Out). I’m mostly just throwing that number out to get the ball rolling on the discussion.
Thoughts?
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Based on that screen shot from the film, where rey and co, blast out of kylo ren's star destroyer, on the falcon, it certainly seemed like it at LEAST BLASTED everyone back.. Not sure if they got damaged by it.
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Esoomian
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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I definitely do think it should inflict damage but I don't really want to track the possibility of toxins building up in a system or anything.
The physical push should do something to beings or objects too close to the thrusters, especially in atmosphere where there is a way of that force being transmitted easily. The whole for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Maybe something simple like break speed down into pips. So something traveling at speed 8 would do 2d+2 damage to something that is too close to it. As you point out hull should be a factor but I don't want too much math involved so maybe the hull dictates what sort of range the blast wave can reach.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Alternately, it could be a simple Movement check, with a modifier based on how powerful the drives are.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Esoomian
High Admiral
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Movement check like if you want to use your drive wash to do damage to folks then make a piloting roll at DC whatever or
Movement check like if you want to blast out of here quickly but without splattering all the people in the hanger then make a piloting roll at DC whatever or
Movement check like you're moving around a hanger when a ship starts up it's engines. Make a running check to stay on your feet as the drive trail washes over you?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 12:49 am Post subject: |
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I was thinking mainly the effect on characters or vehicles passing through the jet wash. I hadn’t really gotten as far as weaponizing it.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | I definitely do think it should inflict damage but I don't really want to track the possibility of toxins building up in a system or anything.
The physical push should do something to beings or objects too close to the thrusters, especially in atmosphere where there is a way of that force being transmitted easily. The whole for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Maybe something simple like break speed down into pips. So something traveling at speed 8 would do 2d+2 damage to something that is too close to it. As you point out hull should be a factor but I don't want too much math involved so maybe the hull dictates what sort of range the blast wave can reach. |
I'd rather see scale modify it, than hull..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 11:09 am Post subject: |
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There’s a lot of variation in mass and thrust output, even within the same Scale step. Scale would still be applied, as a smaller, more fragile object will take even more damage. A starfighter’s drives at full blast might buffet another starfighter, but will almost certainly send anything Character-scale sprawling.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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I actually found this in the 2nd Edition revised, expanded and updated rules set.
| 2nd Ed Rules wrote: | | Though many varieties of sublight drives existt hroughout the galaxy — solid chemical booster rockets, atomic drives, light sails, ramjets — by far the most popular in the Empire is the Hoersch-Kessel ion engine. Originally brought into this part of the galaxy countless millennia ago by alien merchants, today almost all of the major ship manufactures put Hoersch-Kessel-style motors into their vessels. |
| 2nd Ed Rules wrote: | | While the H-K’s thrust is mildly radioactive and dangerous at extremely close ranges, it is safe enough to use in an atmosphere. The H-K’s most dangerous emissions are normally stopped by a series of collector coils, which are “scrubbed” and replaced during regular maintenance. Maintenance personnel routinely wear radiation-proof clothing (and smart ones have periodic anti-radiation inoculations as well). For situations where the H-K cannot be used, a ship relies on its repulsorlift engines. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | I actually found this in the 2nd Edition revised, expanded and updated rules set...
| 2nd Ed Rules wrote: | | ...While the H-K’s thrust is mildly radioactive and dangerous at extremely close ranges, it is safe enough to use in an atmosphere. The H-K’s most dangerous emissions are normally stopped by a series of collector coils, which are “scrubbed” and replaced during regular maintenance. Maintenance personnel routinely wear radiation-proof clothing (and smart ones have periodic anti-radiation inoculations as well). For situations where the H-K cannot be used, a ship relies on its repulsorlift engines. |
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Thank you. And just for maximum elucidation, most of this text originally came straight from The Star Wars Sourcebook 1e.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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I’d still like for there to be some sort of limitation on using a drive’s full power in atmosphere. Several of my stats have gone with improved / reduced atmospheric performance, and I’d like to maintain that.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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I am thinking it may have been one of the novels, that made that comment about ships NOT being allowed to use their full on ion drive in atmosphere, due to xyz.. Pity i can't remember right now, WHICH novel.
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I’d still like for there to be some sort of limitation on using a drive’s full power in atmosphere. Several of my stats have gone with improved / reduced atmospheric performance, and I’d like to maintain that. |
Engines switching to repulsorlift drive at a cetain altitude?
I was thinking that some air speeders do have a fairly high flight level, evne several kilometers, I belive some even have in the 40-50 km range, so perhaps anything below this most ships use repuilsorlifts, but naturally can use tjeir Ion Drive.
As to what the blast damage is, we see some of this with the falcon in TFA, it blows back and knock people over , but it could be argued this was the hyperdrive connecting while in repilorlift drive, if in Ion Drive the blast could have possibly been more "deadly"
But as to the limitation I would asy some flight level and then repulsorls kick in automatically on most ships, and can be manually overridden live with warships. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I’d still like for there to be some sort of limitation on using a drive’s full power in atmosphere. Several of my stats have gone with improved / reduced atmospheric performance, and I’d like to maintain that. |
I put this question to science-heads over on the Fractalsponge Discord, and I got some decent responses, enough to come up with (I think) a plausible explanation. Someone made the point that lighting off an ion drive in atmosphere would be like sitting on top of a nuclear explosion, with obvious consequences. It’s also worth noting that, in at least two instances on screen (the Falcon escaping Cloud City and the U-Wing escaping Jeddha in Rogue One), being able to “hit the afterburners” and go full sublight speed to get away would’ve been very handy, yet neither ship did it, instead resorting to a tail chase or an extremely risky blind hyperspace jump.
However, it’s established in the films and EU that some speeders utilize booster engines to augment the maximum speed of their repulsorlifts, so obviously some sorts of thrust are still viable in atmosphere.
What I’m thinking is:1) Using a starship-grade ion drive in atmosphere is inherently lethal (as in, creates a nuclear detonation with the generating starship at point-blank range), and as such, all starship ion drives are locked out of usage until the drives internal sensors register sufficient drop in atmospheric density for it to be safe to activate. This lockout is even more total than the one for hyperdrives in a gravity well, as the ion drive will destroy the ship if engaged in atmosphere.
2) Because starships still use their drives in atmosphere, the drive is “dual-stage” in nature, with a much lower powered form of thrust being used during atmospheric flight. This can be either a separate drive that uses the same thrust ports, or it can be “ramjet” style, where the drive only kicks into “high” mode once a certain speed or altitude is reached (I’m partial to the latter, as several vehicles are noted as having ion afterburners, but I’m not entirely sure how the science would work).
3) Because the two drive modes would exist side-by-side, increasing the size/speed of one mode would limit the volume/speed available to the other, thus retaining the varying performance I’ve written into some stats.
4) Speeders, cloud cars and other craft that make use of boosters are able to do devote their entire drive volume to the in-atmosphere mode, thus making their in-atmosphere performance superior to starfighters, at the cost of being unable to travel in space outside of, say, low orbit.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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