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Sutehp
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 Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:27 pm Post subject: Cardan-class Space Stations from Empire At War |
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For those of you who don't know, Star Wars: Empire at War is an RTS strategy game that came out in 2006 and is probably considered the best Star Wars RTS video game ever; there's still a thriving modding community for it even today. Both the Empire and the Rebellion can build and upgrade a series of space stations to protect planets and even function as shipyards. The Imperial stations are known as Cardan-class stations, while the Rebel stations never got an official class name, but I've decided to call them Alliance-class stations for lack of a better term. Both the Cardans and the Alliances have 5 levels of upgradeable stations, each bigger and more heavily armed than the last.
My purpose in posting this thread is to see if I could hash out decent D6 stats for these space stations. I found a couple of attempts to translate the staions to D6 stats, neither of which I found very satisfactory. The first set of Cardan stats can be found at The Shipyard (Just look up each of the Cardan stations individually). The second set of Cardan stats I found at RPGGamer.org (Look for the Imperial Space Station 1 through 5 under the Starships D6>Galactic Empire>Space Station subsection).
My issue with the Shipyard stats is that they seem accurate except for the number (and sometimes type) of weapons. My issue with the RPGGamer stats is that they looked like they were just randomly asspulled without any consultation with Wookieepedia's articles on the Cardans at all. So I made my own stats based on the SHipyard stats and supplemented them with my own changed weapon stats that I came up with by comparing the weapons loadout to 1) the Imperial Star Destroyer stats in the Imperial Sourcebook (some of the Cardans dwarf the ImpStar and heavily outgun it); 2) my updated Golan stats that I annotated with data from the FFG Book Fly Casual; and 3) the D6 stats of the Derilyn Space Defense Platform from Planets of the Galaxy Volume 3, a 4,225 meter long starbase that outguns even a Golan III (even with my buffed homeruled stats).
My following posts will have my homeruled Cardan stats, along with an individual link to each station's version of its Shipyard and RPGGamer stats for comparison. Feel free to discuss them at your leisure.
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Cardan I Space Station
Cardan I Wookieepedia entry
Cardan I Shipyard link
Cardan I RPGGamer link
Craft: KDY Cardan I Space Station
Type: multi-purpose military space station
Scale: Capital (Destroyer +12D (+48 ))
Length: 1,860 meters (height)
Crew: 1,200, gunners: 85
Crew Skill: Capital starship gunnery 5D, capital starship shields 5D
Passengers: 300
Cargo Capacity: 15,000 metric tons
Consumables: 2 years
Hyperdrive Multiplier: -
Hyperdrive Backup: -
Nav Computer: -
Maneuverability: -
Space: -
Hull: 5D
Shields: 4D
Sensors:
Passive: 75/1D
Scan: 150/2D
Search: 300/3D+2
Focus: 9/5D
Weapons:
20 Turbolaser Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 3-15/35/75
Damage: 4D
20 Point-defense Laser Cannon Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Scale: starfighter
Fire Control: 4D
Space Range: 1-3/12/25
Damage: 6D
1 Concussion Missile Launcher
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 1
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 2-12/30/60
Damage: 9D
Starfighters: 12 (2 shuttles, 10 skiffs, 6 worker pods)
Capsule: The Cardan-class was an orbital defense structure, built near a planet or at a strategic point in deep space in order to provide defense against attacks from space. The stations could house squadrons of TIE starfighters in their internal hangars and deploy them for additional defense.
Stations were given identifying levels, ranked according to their defensive capabilities. A Mark I space station, for example, was very weak, and thus could be easily destroyed by an enemy fleet. A Mark V space station, however, required a large military force to overcome it. Standard defenses on these space stations included, ion cannons, laser cannons, proton torpedo launchers, concussion missile launchers and turbolaser batteries.
Space stations also came equipped with shield generators and hangars full of starfighters, which provided additional defenses. Areas facilitating the needs of starfighter pilots and technicians were located throughout each section. Security sections were located near every hangar bay, in the upper parts of the walls. From here, security officers could deal with a situation isolated from the other areas.
The repair and maintenance drydocks were capable of handling ships as large as corvettes. The repair facilities could also construct space ships on their own. All these additional modules, meant that Imperial warships could operate far from the Core without requiring large travels to be maintained. Besides the drydocks, there were also docking berths for four other warships up to the size of Star Destroyers, allowing basic maintenance and repairs. All these extra innovations made the Cardan-class more versatile than other defense stations, like the Golan space defense platforms.
These stations were first designed towards the end of the Clone Wars, as a means of protecting Republic worlds against encroaching CIS fleets. Several prototypes were built, and production got underway, but deployment of these defense stations didn't happen before the Republic had been replaced by the Galactic Empire.
Mark I Cardans were built first and placed throughout the Empire to help it defend its rimward systems and maintain order in the new regime. As pirates and crime rings invaded and infiltrated the structures, newer, bigger models with increased defensive systems were created at KDY and the engagements and illegal takeovers decreased. The success of the stations led to an improvement in the plans for future constructions, such as the Super Star Destroyers and the second Death Star battlestation.
During its operation, a Cardan-class station was important enough to be able to call in reinforcements such as Acclamator II-class assault ships or Tartan-class patrol cruisers that were kept on patrol nearby. The stations could be found throughout the galaxy, in places the Empire had some kind of vested interest in.
Cardans were placed everywhere from the Deep Core to the Galactic Rim, with special focus on systems in the Mid Rim and Outer Rim. Also important was the protection of the hyperspace lanes. Stations were positioned in deep space at crossroads, such as the one between the Perlemian Trade Route and the Hydian Way. Whenever the Empire moved into new systems, Cardans were often established to help maintain the Imperial presence.
Source: Star Wars: Empire at War video game; Star Wars Shipyard website: http://web.archive.org/web/20101122012801/http://bwafer.com/starwars/cardan1.html (I modified the number of weapons as the previous number was from the game. Under WEG rules, the station would have proportionally more beam weapons. I also deleted the tractor beams as Wookieepedia says the Cardan I doesn’t have them. -Su-tehp)
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Last edited by Sutehp on Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:31 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Cardan II Space Station
Cardan II Wookieepedia entry
Cardan II Shipyard link
Cardan II RPGGamer.org link
Craft: KDY Cardan II Space Station
Type: multi-purpose military space station
Scale: Capital (Dreadnought +16D (+64))
Length: 4,220 meters
Crew: 4,400, gunners: 132
Crew Skill: Capital starship gunnery 5D, capital starship shields 5D+2
Passengers: 600
Cargo Capacity: 30,000 metric tons
Consumables: 2 years
Hyperdrive Multiplier: -
Hyperdrive Backup: -
Nav Computer: -
Maneuverability: -
Space: -
Hull: 6D+1
Shields: 4D+2
Sensors:
Passive: 75/1D
Scan: 150/2D
Search: 300/3D+2
Focus: 9/5D
Weapons:
30 Turbolaser Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 3-15/35/75
Damage: 4D
30 Point-defense Laser Cannon Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Scale: starfighter
Fire Control: 4D
Space Range: 1-3/12/25
Damage: 6D
2 Proton Torpedo Launchers
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 1
Fire Control: 1D
Space Range: 2-12/30/60
Damage: 7D
2 Concussion Missile Launchers
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 1
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 2-12/30/60
Damage: 9D
2 Tractor Beam Emplacements
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 4
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 1-5/15/30
Damage: 5D
Starfighters: 24 (4 shuttles, 20 skiffs, 12 worker pods)
Capsule: See Cardan I
Source: Star Wars: Empire at War video game; Star Wars Shipyard website:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101122072317/http://bwafer.com/starwars/cardan2.html (I modified the number of weapons as the previous number was from the game. Under WEG rules, the station would have proportionally more beam weapons. -Su-tehp)
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Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Last edited by Sutehp on Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:33 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Cardan III Space Station
Cardan III Wookieepedia entry
Cardan III Shipyard link
Cardan III RPGGamer link
Craft: KDY Cardan III Space Station
Type: multi-purpose military space station
Scale: Capital (Dreadnought +16D (+64))
Length: 4,935 meters
Crew: 4,800, gunners: 256
Crew Skill: Capital starship gunnery 5D, capital starship shields 6D
Passengers: 1,200
Cargo Capacity: 35,000 metric tons
Consumables: 2 years
Hyperdrive Multiplier: -
Hyperdrive Backup: -
Nav Computer: -
Maneuverability: -
Space: -
Hull: 7D+2
Shields: 5D+1
Sensors:
Passive: 75/1D
Scan: 150/2D
Search: 300/3D+2
Focus: 9/5D
Weapons:
40 Turbolaser Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 3-15/35/75
Damage: 5D
40 Ion Cannon Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 1-10/25/50
Damage: 5D
40 Point-defense Laser Cannon Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Scale: starfighter
Fire Control: 4D
Space Range: 1-3/12/25
Damage: 6D
4 Proton Torpedo Launchers
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 1
Fire Control: 1D
Space Range: 2-12/30/60
Damage: 7D
4 Concussion Missile Launchers
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 1
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 2-12/30/60
Damage: 9D
2 Tractor Beam Emplacements
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 4
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 1-5/15/30
Damage: 5D+2
Starfighters: 48 (6 shuttles, 30 skiffs, 18 worker pods)
Capsule: See Cardan I
Source: Star Wars: Empire at War video game; Star Wars Shipyard website:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101122014131/http://bwafer.com/starwars/cardan3.html (I modified the number of weapons as the previous number was from the game. Under WEG rules, the station would have proportionally more beam weapons. -Su-tehp)
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Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Last edited by Sutehp on Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:34 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Cardan IV Space Station
Cardan IV Wookieepedia entry
Cardan IV Shipyard link
Cardan IV RPGGamer.org link
Craft: KDY Cardan IV Space Station
Type: multi-purpose military space station
Scale: Capital (Dreadnought +16D (+64))
Length: 5,185 meters
Crew: 6,000, gunners: 332
Crew Skill: Capital starship gunnery 5D, capital starship shields 6D+2
Passengers: 1,800
Cargo Capacity: 45,000 metric tons
Consumables: 4 years
Hyperdrive Multiplier: -
Hyperdrive Backup: -
Nav Computer: -
Maneuverability: -
Space: -
Hull: 8D+1
Shields: 6D
Sensors:
Passive: 75/1D
Scan: 150/2D
Search: 300/3D+2
Focus: 9/5D
Weapons:
50 Turbolaser Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 3-15/35/75
Damage: 5D
50 Ion Cannon Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 1-10/25/50
Damage: 5D
50 Point-defense Laser Cannon Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Scale: starfighter
Fire Control: 4D
Space Range: 1-3/12/25
Damage: 6D
8 Proton Torpedo Launchers
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 1
Fire Control: 1D
Space Range: 2-12/30/60
Damage: 7D
8 Concussion Missile Launchers
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 1
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 2-12/30/60
Damage: 9D
4 Tractor Beam Emplacements
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 4
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 1-5/15/30
Damage: 5D+2
Starfighters: 72 (8 shuttles, 40 skiffs, 24 worker pods)
Capsule: See Cardan I
Source: Star Wars: Empire at War video game; Star Wars Shipyard website:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101122023837/http://bwafer.com/starwars/cardan4.html (I modified the number of weapons as the previous number was from the game. Under WEG rules, the station would have proportionally more beam weapons. -Su-tehp)
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Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Last edited by Sutehp on Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:35 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Cardan V Space Station
Cardan V Wookieepedia entry
Cardan V Shipyard link
Cardan V RPGGamer.org link
Craft: KDY Cardan V Space Station
Type: multi-purpose military space station
Scale: Capital (Dreadnought +16D (+64))
Length: 5,590 meters
Crew: 8,400, gunners: 408
Crew Skill: Capital starship gunnery 5D, capital starship shields 6D+2
Passengers: 2,400
Cargo Capacity: 60,000 metric tons
Consumables: 5 years
Hyperdrive Multiplier: -
Hyperdrive Backup: -
Nav Computer: -
Maneuverability: -
Space: -
Hull: 9D
Shields: 6D+2
Sensors:
Passive: 75/1D
Scan: 150/2D
Search: 300/3D+2
Focus: 9/5D
Weapons:
60 Turbolaser Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 3-15/35/75
Damage: 5D
60 Ion Cannon Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 1-10/25/50
Damage: 5D
60 Point-defense Laser Cannon Batteries
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 2
Scale: starfighter
Fire Control: 4D
Space Range: 1-3/12/25
Damage: 6D
12 Proton Torpedo Launchers
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 1
Fire Control: 1D
Space Range: 2-12/30/60
Damage: 7D
12 Concussion Missile Launchers
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 1
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 2-12/30/60
Damage: 9D
6 Tractor Beam Emplacements
Fire Arc: turret
Crew: 4
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 1-5/15/30
Damage: 5D+2
Starfighters: 96 (10 shuttles, 50 skiffs, 30 worker pods)
Capsule:See Cardan I
Source: Star Wars: Empire at War video game; Star Wars Shipyard website:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101122190537/http://bwafer.com/starwars/cardan5.html (I modified the number of weapons as the previous number was from the game. Under WEG rules, the station would have proportionally more beam weapons. -Su-tehp)
_________________
Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Last edited by Sutehp on Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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For additional comparison:
My homeruled Golan I stats (annotated with Golan I data from the FFG book Fly Casual)
My homeruled Golan II stats (annotated with Golan I data from the FFG book Fly Casual)
My homeruled Golan III stats (annotated with Golan I data from the FFG book Fly Casual)
Rendili Space Platform stats (copied from Planets of the Galaxy, Volume 3, see planet Derilyn on pages 74-75)
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Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Last edited by Sutehp on Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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The Alliance-class Space Stations are going to each have the same stats as their respective Cardan counterpart, for simplicity's sake.
Their respective images can be found here.
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Just purchased and downloaded Empire at War again, so I'm going to try to see if I can eyeball the lengths of the space stations and adjust my stats accordingly. They're alot bigger (even the Level 1 stations) than I thought.
Empire at War is such an awesome game, I can't wait to relearn it and play it again.
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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damn, this thread feels lonely with just me posting in it.
Anyway, After playing EaW a few times in skirmish mode, I eyeballed the Station lengths/heights and adjusted the stats above accordingly. I had no choice but to eyeball the lengths because even after getting in contact with a couple of EaW modders, they explained to me that the space stations aren't on the same scale as the capital ships, so any space station measurements would be useless. Ah well.
My Google Docs link has the updated Cardan and Alliance stats as well on downloadable docfiles. Feel free to download them at your leisure.
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Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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20 starting out for turbos and point defense laser batteries seems a bit much on the type 1, especially since in game they didn't seem to have that many weapon emplacements, AND sucked against fighters (up to the L3 and beyond level)..
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | 20 starting out for turbos and point defense laser batteries seems a bit much on the type 1, especially since in game they didn't seem to have that many weapon emplacements, AND sucked against fighters (up to the L3 and beyond level).. |
Finally, some feedback! Garhkal, I could kiss you...!
...but I think I'll refrain, for both our sakes. 
But yeah, you might be right about the number of weapons. I'm basically pulling these numbers out of my @$$, as I'm basing them on nothing but the types of weapons these stations had in the game and even Wookieepedia mentions that they're not proportionally accurate to what they should have in other media like the D6 rules. I made some notes on what types of weapons the L1 and L2 and even the L5 have for the Alliance class stations (I'm going on the assumption that the Cardans and the Alliances have the same number and type of weapons in-game in EaW because of game balance and such, but I'll need to confirm that independently for myself soon), but in the heat of the skirmish, I, uh, missed the opportunity to take notes on the L3 and L4 as I was paying more attention to holding the line at my mining station than paying attention to my station's upgrade progress. Oops. 
What do you think would be a more appropriate number of beam weapons for the L1 Cardan (and, by extension, the L1 Alliance station)? Say about 10 turbolasers and 10 lasers? Or would 12 of each be better? Or maybe 15?
I figure that 1 conc missile launcher has to stay since it's in the L1 station in-game. Which reminds me: I know from the X-Wing and Tie Fighter video games' mechanics don't necessarily match the D6 rules (to say the least), but in the video games, conc missiles are anti-fighter weapons. In D6 rules, are the conc missiles supposed to be more powerful than proton torpedoes and are thus anti-capital ship weapons? I remember how in the ROTJ novelization, during the Death Star run, Lando hints that conc missiles are more powerful than proton torpedoes, but this throwaway line that didn't even appear in the movie might not have gotten translated into the video game even if it did make it into the D6 system. So are conc missiles truly better designed as anti-cap ship weapons in the D6 system?
EDIT: I just rewrote the Capsules for both the Cardans and the Alliances as I found an archived WotC article detailing the Cardans I through III and copied their description since I didn't want to deal with all the grammar errors from the original homebrewed capsule. I also rewrote the capsule for the Alliance class stations as it needed some tweaking. I haven't edited the above posts as it was far easier for me to edit my docfiles and reupload them into my Google Docs, which, as always, you can find through my signature link.
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Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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For the L1 version i see maybe a dozen turbos, 4 tractor beams, and 6 ions.
L2 ups to 16/6/10
L3 goes to 22/10/14, adds 6 anti fighter batteries and 4 protons and 4 concussions
L4 goes to 28/14/18/10/6/6
L5 goes to 36/18/22/14/10/10
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:05 am Post subject: |
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To make sure I have understood you correctly:
For the L1 version: 12 turbolasers, 4 tractor beams and 6 ion point defense cannons.
L2 ups to 16 turbolasers, 6 tractor beams and 10 ion point defense cannons.
L3 goes to 22 turbolasers, 10 tractor beams, 14 ion point defense cannons, 6 anti fighter laser batteries and 4 protons and 4 concussions
L4 goes to 28 turbolasers, 14 tractor beams, 18 ion point defense cannons, 10 antifighter laser batteries, 6 protons and 6 concussions
L5 goes to 36 turbolasers, 18 tractor beams, 22 ion point defense cannons, 14 antifighter laser batteries, 10 protons and 10 concussions
I dunno. For everything above the L1, these seem ridiculously undergunned considering the size of these stations. Remember, the L1 is at least 3 times larger than an Acclamator-class cruiser and is slightly larger than a Star Destroyer. And the L2 through L5 friggin' dwarf even the Star Destroyer. Seriously, those things are friggin HUGE next to a Star Destroyer. There's a reason I made the L2 through L5 Dreadnought scale under CRMcNeill's scale rules.
I'd love to see how a Super Star Destroyer looks next to a L5 station (either Cardan or Alliance) but who knows if the SSD depicted in EaW: Force of Corruption is the 8km SSD or the 19km SSD? (Stupid "five times larger" misinterpretation that created the Executor Controversy...)
Hell, the Baas-class space station is only 900 meters long and has 20 turbolasers and 32 antifighter dual blaster cannons, and that's not even a shipyard. It's just a supply depot (AKA a closet in space) and it's better defended than the above suggested stats for the L1 and L2.
I know, I know, Garhkal. I asked for your opinion and you gave it. And this is admittedly a subjective subject with no hard and fast rules or even any guidelines for conversion from video game to tabletop format. All we've got here are gut feelings and my feelings don't match yours. (My gut feeling feels a bit like a stomachache and to hear you tell it, your gut feeling sounds like cramps. Or maybe even constipation!)  
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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It's actually
For the L1 version: 12 turbolaser BATTERIES, 4 tractor beam projectors and 6 ion Cannon batteries (Batteries. not individual!)
Then scale up from there. So the L5 has
36 turbolaser batteries, 22 ion batteries, 10/10 concussion/proton BATTERIES (iirc a launcher battery is a 6 pack of separate launchers that can be fire linked).. 14 anti fighter quad laser cannon BATTERIES..
Also remember, a battery, usually comprises of at least 4, some times 10 individual units, that can be fire linked..
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