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CRMcNeill
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 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:18 pm Post subject: Creatures and Scale |
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The Creatures Chapter of the Star Wars Sourcebook states the following:Normally creatures will be "creature" scale (which is the same as "character" scale). This listing will be given only if the creature is not creature scale. And then, after including the possibility, almost no creature stats make use of this option. It seems silly to me that WEG would have a rule specifically for dealing with interactions between beings of different size, and then fail to use it where it's applicable. If you look at most of the creatures detailed in the chapter, they're all noticeably larger than human beings, yet are all treated as though they are the same size, which has implications for Brawling Combat and the like. For example, a Rancor is comparable in size to an AT-ST, but because of the vagaries of the Scale rules, it suffers a -4D penalty to shoot the Rancor, while the Rancor receives a +4D bonus to hit the AT-ST with a Brawling attack.
While creature stats aren't generally within my scope of interest, this has got me thinking. IMO, at the very least, Banthas and Dewbacks should be Speeder-Scale, while Rancors should be Walker-Scale (per the RAW, not my homebrew system, just to be clear).
Creature stats are relatively easy to bang out, so I'm likely to do some stat rewrites factoring in Scale differences, but I'd like to hear some input.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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I've often felt rancors should at least be walker, if not speeder scale. Krayat dragons, starfighter scale..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I've often felt rancors should at least be walker, if not speeder scale. Krayat dragons, starfighter scale.. |
I expect I’ll convert them to my scale system, with the modifier in parenthesis after the Scale. That’ll keep them consistent with the rest of my stats and it’ll be easier to convert back to the RAW if that’s your preference.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Naaman
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Whill
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Any particular requests? My initial thought is to do any creatures from the rule book and core sourcebooks that I consider to be larger than Character-Scale, plus anything of particular interest to other forum members.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:24 am Post subject: |
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Found one candidate already: the Beldon, a floating gas bag / jellyfish like creature in the atmosphere of Bespin. It ranges in size from 900 meters in diameter all the way up to 10 kilometers. Scale? Walker. Because... reasons.
Oh, WEG, you so silly.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Walker, when its 900+ meters? That should be at LEAST starfighter, maybe even capital at the larger sizes.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Walker, when its 900+ meters? That should be at LEAST starfighter, maybe even capital at the larger sizes. |
900m diameter? That's a capital ship, definitely.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Walker, when its 900+ meters? That should be at LEAST starfighter, maybe even capital at the larger sizes. |
900m diameter? That's a capital ship, definitely. |
My thoughts exactly. It’s pretty apparent that a lot of WEG stat writers didn’t have a good grasp on the intent of Scale.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Walker, when its 900+ meters? That should be at LEAST starfighter, maybe even capital at the larger sizes. |
900m diameter? That's a capital ship, definitely. |
My thoughts exactly. It’s pretty apparent that a lot of WEG stat writers didn’t have a good grasp on the intent of Scale. |
I do feel there is a way to interpret scale other than just size.
Since scale is a combat mechanic, it affects both attack and defense rolls. In terms.
Using the cloud monster as an example, if the creature had especially vulnerable organs or was otherwise very "squishy" in terms of it's resilience, it could make sense to make it a smaller scale. Also, its means of attack might be limited to very short range, small bursts, as opposed to having long range turbo lasers that can target and damage things dozens or hundreds of kilometers away.
For example, even if the gas creature could attack the "surface" of Bespin, it would not need to be able to "shoot" more than a few kilometers.
Also, if puncturing it guarantees it's death (like popping a balloon, for example), and if it's membrane (or whatever) is fairly delicate (relative to its size), then I could see it being of a lower (that is, "weaker") scale.
Of course it depends on how you interpret "scale."
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:53 am Post subject: |
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The Beldon isn't really an attacker; it's a floating gas bag that feeds on algae and nutrients suspended in the clouds of Bespin, and is described as being quite peaceful. In fact, considering it's specifically described as using "electrolocomotion" to propel itself through the clouds, some sort of electric "taser" effect might be appropriate to help it stave off predators (the Velker, basically a carnivorous flying manta ray the size of a light cruiser), but no such thing is listed.
Considering how massive these things can get, giving them a base Strength of 1D within their size range seems appropriate.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Here's a preliminary list of the creatures that, IMO, need to be re-Scaled, as selected from the 2R&E Rulebook, the Star Wars Sourcebook and the Movie Trilogy Special Edition Sourcebook. Any creature from those books that is not listed remains Character-Scale.Tiny (-2D)
-Rawwk
Swoop (+2D)
-Cracian Thumper
-Dewback
-Dianoga
-Dragonsnake
-Tauntaun
Speeder (+4D)
-Bantha
-Ghest
-Knobby Spider
-Rancor
-Ronto
-Swamp Slug
-Ukian Torbull
Starship (+6D)
-Space Slug (Normal)
Walker (+8D)
-Krayt Dragon
-Sarlacc
Frigate (+10D)
-Beldon (Small)
-Velker
Destroyer (+12D)
-Space Slug (Large)
Dreadnought (+16D)
-Beldon (Large)
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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