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shootingwomprats
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 Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:25 am Post subject: Jetpacks |
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I have never really liked the mechanics for jetpacks so here are two well-known jetpacks who's stats have been expanded. What do you guys think?
| Quote: | JT-12 Jetpack
A model of jetpack used during the Clone Wars by several factions including the Galactic Republic and Death Watch. Several variations of the jetpack existed including the JT-12C and the JT-12 EVA. The jetpack was capable of short and long distance jumps. The average maximum speed in fight was 145 kilometers per hour.
JT-12 Jetpack
Model: Merr-Sonn Munitions JT-12 Jetpack
Type: Personal jet pack
Skill: Jet pack operation
Cost: 500
Availability: 2
Weight: 15 kilograms
Charges: 20
Altitude Range: Up to 2 kilometers
Maneuverability: 2D
Move: 50; 145 kmh
Body Strength: 2D+1
Game Notes: Base difficulty is Easy, modified by obstacles. May carry an extra 100 kilograms of cargo, besides the operator, but movement is halved.
Source: Equipment Stats (p.52-53 "Z-6 Jet Pack") modified by Emperor Ollie. |
| Quote: | Z-6 Jetpack
The jetpack included a targeting computer, flight gyros, and magnetic grappling hook and lanyard that could be replaced with single-shot missile. The Z-6's fuel tank held enough fuel for one minute of continuous operation . Each blast moved the wearer up to 100 meters horizontally or 70 meters vertically. A user of standard height and weight could reach a top speed of 145 kilometers per hour with a maximum range of two kilometers. Directional thrusters featured gyro-stabilizers to apply counterthrust for maneuvering and landing.
Z-6 Jetpack
Model: Mitrinomon Transports Z-6 Jetpack
Type: Personal jetpack
Skill: Jetpack opration
Cost: 300
Availability: 2; 3 F or X (with missile upgrade)
Weight: 30 kilograms
Charges: 20
Altitude Range: Up to 2 kilometers
Maneuverability: 1D
Speed: 50; 145 kmh
Body Strength: 3D
Weapons:
Anti-Vehicle Homing Missile
-- Fire Arc: Front
-- Scale: Speeder
-- Skill: Missile weapons
-- Ammo: 1 (replacement missile: 500)
-- Fire Control: +2
-- Range: 3-10/30/120
-- Damage: 5D
Game Notes: Base difficulty is Easy, modified by obstacles. May carry an extra 100 kilograms of cargo, besides the operator, but movement is halved. The top of the jet pack had a turbo-projected magnetic grappling hook with 100-meter lanyard (5-25/50/100) and winch inside the launcher. The ascension system has a maximum vertical lift capacity of roughly 100 kg and pulled the user at 18 meters per round. The grappling hook unit was replaceable with an anti-vehicle homing missile (700 credits).
Source: Equipment Stats (p.52-53) modifications by Emperor Ollie. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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IN what way hav you not liked their mechanics?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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I like this. I've discussed this elsewhere, by proposing splitting them into Flight Packs and Jump Packs, where the Flight Pack operates like a vehicle with vehicle stats, and the Jump Pack is more in line with the existing Jet Pack rules, and allows the character to make point-to-point jumps. The Jump Pack can cover more distance in a single round, but the Flight Pack has greater top speed and effective range.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10438
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Jetpacks |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | I have never really liked the mechanics for jetpacks so here are two well-known jetpacks who's stats have been expanded. What do you guys think? |
| garhkal wrote: | | IN what way hav you not liked their mechanics? |
I agree. Some background as to what specifically you don't like about the existing rules and how your version addresses that would be helpful.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I like this. I've discussed this elsewhere, by proposing splitting them into Flight Packs and Jump Packs, where the Flight Pack operates like a vehicle with vehicle stats, and the Jump Pack is more in line with the existing Jet Pack rules, and allows the character to make point-to-point jumps. The Jump Pack can cover more distance in a single round, but the Flight Pack has greater top speed and effective range. |
That's cool but there still should be a specific number of rounds of use that the fuel lasts for the more vehicle-like Flight Packs. Otherwise you just have the infinite fuel flight packs of the cartoons where they are functionally speeders that provide less cover for the pilot.
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Infinite fuel jetpacks don't bother me. I don't see any reason to nickel and dime characters over something trivial like having a jetpack.
In fact... nothing smaller than a starfighter has consumables listed, it's assumed that they all have enough fuel to do the job at hand.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | Infinite fuel jetpacks don't bother me. I don't see any reason to nickel and dime characters over something trivial like having a jetpack.
In fact... nothing smaller than a starfighter has consumables listed, it's assumed that they all have enough fuel to do the job at hand. |
That to ME is a fault of the game designers. ALL power suits and such, should have 'max # of hours usable' figures.. ALL of them!
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | That to ME is a fault of the game designers. ALL power suits and such, should have 'max # of hours usable' figures.. ALL of them! |
When your goal is to design a simple, fast-paced and easy-to-use system for cinematic style game play, Max # of Usable Hours is the first thing that should be taken out. If fuel/power capacity is incorporated at all, it should also be cinematic in nature, perhaps as the result of a Wild Dice failure or some such.
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MrNexx
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Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | Infinite fuel jetpacks don't bother me. I don't see any reason to nickel and dime characters over something trivial like having a jetpack.
In fact... nothing smaller than a starfighter has consumables listed, it's assumed that they all have enough fuel to do the job at hand. |
Personally, I've never felt the need to track any kind of power usage in Star Wars... blasters, lightsabers, jet packs, even starships. They have infinite power at the stated output levels (i.e. they can't all become Death Stars with their infinite power, but they can run for centuries without anything like "refueling").
I can't recall any blasters running out in the OT, or even a specific time of refuelling, except as a background image that might be explained another way. The limitation the GFFA has is material... getting things from A to B, which is why smugglers are a big deal.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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A bunch of other things are getting lumped in together, and I don't think they should be. I don't normally track blaster bolts and I hand wave they get recharged every opportunity. One little blaster can hold a lot of shots.
But conveyance is different. I don't track speeders and ships because there is room for fuel. There isn't much room for fuel in flight packs. Cartoons ignore this and show jetpacks being used for long term travel along side speeders.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | But conveyance is different. I don't track speeders and ships because there is room for fuel. There isn't much room for fuel in flight packs. Cartoons ignore this and show jetpacks being used for long term travel along side speeders. |
I get that position, don't get me wrong, and I'm pretty sure it's right. But it's something I'm willing to hand-wave. We don't have enough jetpack scenes to argue either way, IMO (maybe some Jango scenes in AotC? I cannot remember), so I'm content with my headcanon.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | That to ME is a fault of the game designers. ALL power suits and such, should have 'max # of hours usable' figures.. ALL of them! |
I'm willing to hand wave it a lot more for non-flying power suits. None would ever get used for long term in my game anyway (the story would never warrant spending a whole adventure in power armor). But I would have a similar fuel concern for a flying power suit as I would a flight pack.
| MrNexx wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | But conveyance is different. I don't track speeders and ships because there is room for fuel. There isn't much room for fuel in flight packs. Cartoons ignore this and show jetpacks being used for long term travel along side speeders. |
I get that position, don't get me wrong, and I'm pretty sure it's right. But it's something I'm willing to hand-wave. We don't have enough jetpack scenes to argue either way, IMO (maybe some Jango scenes in AotC? I cannot remember), so I'm content with my headcanon. |
You're right. The jet/rocket pack scenes in the films only show short bursts. No sustained flights. So the films do not contradict my requirement for limited fuel in flight packs either. My disbelief suspension requires it, but only for flying conveyances with small fuel storage volume.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | That to ME is a fault of the game designers. ALL power suits and such, should have 'max # of hours usable' figures.. ALL of them! |
When your goal is to design a simple, fast-paced and easy-to-use system for cinematic style game play, Max # of Usable Hours is the first thing that should be taken out. If fuel/power capacity is incorporated at all, it should also be cinematic in nature, perhaps as the result of a Wild Dice failure or some such. |
SO why not do that with Everything.
Got a grenade.. Get to re-use it time and time and time again.
Got armor - it can't be destroyed, as "That is not cinemantic"
Consumable rating for ships - NA, who needs them.
Ammo for guns - Why bother.. That is also not cinematic.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Because they aren’t the same thing.
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Not to mention that most 'guns' are blasters, which have infinite ammo.
I have absolutely no interest in doing accounting exercises with players keeping track of every drop of fuel. That's cool for those who want that level of detail, I just feel it takes away from the action and fun.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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How is it "bean counting" to say "ok, this jet pack, has ten charges. Each charge can get you 100 meters of flight before you need to refuel it"?
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