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The Command Rating
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:22 pm    Post subject: The Command Rating Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
MrNexx wrote:

That's a good idea, yeah. Command as a Knowledge skill works, or there could be an alternate version which is Knowledge, while regular Command remains Perception (q.v. the addition of an Acrobatics skill to Dexterity, while Jumping and Climbing are Strength-based)


As someone who's served, i can easily see there being Two versions to commanding.. The Knowledge based aspect, which is more in knowing WHAT to do, how it works etc.
And the Perception base, on actually convincing folks to work together..

Sort of a "book learning, vs charismatic person"...


So, a thought on Command Rating.

As it stands, your Command rating is equal to your dice in the Command Skill. Have a 3D Command? You can coordinate 3 people. 6D in Command? You can coordinate 6 people. 12D in Command? You are probably cheating. Wink

However, what if we broaden this a bit, and throw in a Knowledge-based option?

Now, my initial idea involved a skill that did not exist, Administration. We could sub in Bureaucracy, but my brain cringes away from that. But that inspires some other thoughts, because my brain pings around like a toddler on meth. What if your "Command Rating" (i.e. the number of people you can effectively get to combine on actions) is equal to your Command skill AND a relevant skill? Or, to limit it a bit, a relevant Knowledge skill?

So, for example, if I need to get everyone to concentrate fire on the Super Star Destroyer, that would not just be Command, but also Tactics. Want to organize a group of police? Command plus Law Enforcement. A group of scholars? Command plus Scholar, but it will make you take a few DSP Wink.

Now, you might expand this a bit, as well, to non-Knowledge skills... Command plus Capital Ship Operations to run your little corner of a Star Destroyer, or Command plus Droid Repair to run a team of R2 units doing maintenance.

It would let subject knowledge contribute to how many people you can control, but you would still be subject to your Command skill to actually get them to do things.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple points...

1) Somewhere in the description of Command / Coordination, it says that the limits can be ignored in the case of groups that are trained to work together, particularly military units. The limits are intended more for groups of PCs performing as a group without prior training (although it makes little sense for a character to suddenly no longer be able to direct a group of people just because someone else showed up to help, but I digress).

2) An alternate theory I came up with elsewhere is to allow the Command limits to be applied to tiers. For example, if a character has 6D in Command, he can Command up to six subordinate layers of troops. I'd prefer a system where a unit is treated as a just that: a unit, with its own specific Command Difficulty rating, but I again digress...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:33 pm    Post subject: Re: The Command Rating Reply with quote

Some good ideas here.

MrNexx wrote:
Now, my initial idea involved a skill that did not exist, Administration. We could sub in Bureaucracy, but my brain cringes away from that. But that inspires some other thoughts, because my brain pings around like a toddler on meth.

I merged "Bureaucracy" and "Law Enforcement" into bureaucracy/law, and expanded it to include general knowledge of organization, laws, security regulations, etc. I don't get too hung up on the name of the skill, and I see a lot of skill specializations for specific focuses.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: The Command Rating Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
garhkal wrote:
MrNexx wrote:

That's a good idea, yeah. Command as a Knowledge skill works, or there could be an alternate version which is Knowledge, while regular Command remains Perception (q.v. the addition of an Acrobatics skill to Dexterity, while Jumping and Climbing are Strength-based)


As someone who's served, i can easily see there being Two versions to commanding.. The Knowledge based aspect, which is more in knowing WHAT to do, how it works etc.
And the Perception base, on actually convincing folks to work together..

Sort of a "book learning, vs charismatic person"...


So, a thought on Command Rating.

As it stands, your Command rating is equal to your dice in the Command Skill. Have a 3D Command? You can coordinate 3 people. 6D in Command? You can coordinate 6 people. 12D in Command? You are probably cheating. Wink

However, what if we broaden this a bit, and throw in a Knowledge-based option?

Now, my initial idea involved a skill that did not exist, Administration. We could sub in Bureaucracy, but my brain cringes away from that. But that inspires some other thoughts, because my brain pings around like a toddler on meth. What if your "Command Rating" (i.e. the number of people you can effectively get to combine on actions) is equal to your Command skill AND a relevant skill? Or, to limit it a bit, a relevant Knowledge skill?

So, for example, if I need to get everyone to concentrate fire on the Super Star Destroyer, that would not just be Command, but also Tactics. Want to organize a group of police? Command plus Law Enforcement. A group of scholars? Command plus Scholar, but it will make you take a few DSP Wink.

Now, you might expand this a bit, as well, to non-Knowledge skills... Command plus Capital Ship Operations to run your little corner of a Star Destroyer, or Command plus Droid Repair to run a team of R2 units doing maintenance.

It would let subject knowledge contribute to how many people you can control, but you would still be subject to your Command skill to actually get them to do things.


Well, by the RAW, "Well organized troops, can often be commanded numerically, above what the command skill shows". So that may take into account what you are thinking of.

THAT SAID i HAVE in the past, thought maybe the command skill, COULD be limited based on the skill you are trying to coordinate for.
So if your repair isn't that high, say 4d, why could you coordinate six or eight people to repair?

So maybe the Command die # of folks, gets capped AT the linked skill?
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pakman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: The Command Rating Reply with quote

Regarding the knowledge part of command - I think this is a slippery slope -as a large number of skills rely on understanding and knowledge - from knowing how circuitry works (repair skills), to how the manuver jets are designed to work (piloting) to the psychology of motivation (con, etc.).

Unless we want to create a bunch more knowledge skills - it might get a bit...thick.

Now, I do agree that many ....sophisticated...situations would absolutely benefit from multiple uses of a skill. Tactics helps give a bonus to the battle, and command helps implement that bonus etc.

I would leave deeper knowledge to picks in Scholar, then allow for supporting rolls or bonuses or something.
(the guy who is the good leader might not have a degree in organizational behavior - but if he did, he could leverage it even more). Kind of thing.

Whill wrote:

I merged "Bureaucracy" and "Law Enforcement" into bureaucracy/law, and expanded it to include general knowledge of organization, laws, security regulations, etc. I don't get too hung up on the name of the skill, and I see a lot of skill specializations for specific focuses.


on a side note - I did a similar - I merged them in to ; Institutions

(I had called it Interstellar Institutions, but that took up too much room on the character sheet. ). Wink

The specializations are;
(Bureaucracy, Economic Unions, Law Enforcement, Military Protocol, Professional Guilds)

I treat this as kind of a lore when interacting with different groups etc.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good ideas, pakman.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a similar note, I came up with this a while back. It's a way to use Knowledge skills to generate bonuses for non-Knowledge skills (although the application is somewhat flexible).

While I'd prefer a method that actually rolls the Knowledge skill to generate the bonus, I could see a streamlined version where the character gets +1 for every full D of skill in a Knowledge skill applicable to the task at hand. It could potentially work for Technical skills, too, especially when a trying to shoot weak spots on a particular vehicle.

Maybe a flat +1 per D bonus, but the character has the option of rolling the dice and potentially getting a better bonus (but has to accept the result whether it's better or worse).

It could also potentially be folded into the Preparation rule, where the character can get either the +1D from Preparation, or they get whatever bonus their Knowledge skill generates.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
On a similar note, I came up with this a while back. It's a way to use Knowledge skills to generate bonuses for non-Knowledge skills (although the application is somewhat flexible).

While I'd prefer a method that actually rolls the Knowledge skill to generate the bonus, I could see a streamlined version where the character gets +1 for every full D of skill in a Knowledge skill applicable to the task at hand. It could potentially work for Technical skills, too, especially when a trying to shoot weak spots on a particular vehicle.

Maybe a flat +1 per D bonus, but the character has the option of rolling the dice and potentially getting a better bonus (but has to accept the result whether it's better or worse).

Sure. We talked about the pip per die bonus a bit in 2014.

https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4798&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I created a side rule to the command skill.

If a small force of stomtroopers attack, they use their combined fire ability and the commander rolls normally for command, he uses his roll as a threshold initiative.

In order for the defenders to break the stormtrooper assault they must not only win the initiative that round/turn but also roll over the command threshold.

So the Stormtrooper commander has 3D+1 in command, he rolled for the threshold 14, any initiatiave over 14 will break the charge/assault and initiative is rolled as normal.

if the threshold (14 in this case) is not defeated then the stormtroopers automatically win the initiave, if the roll fails by 10 or more then the stormtroopers will get one extra attack this turn without the normal MAP penalty.

can only be used with units trained in combined fire, like imperial stormtroopers.

As to command in general I like the tier level, even a seperate strategic and tactical command level, some commander that command the larger formations, like divisions and corps levels, rarely if ever "use the commad skill in the filed as the raw " while the lesser ranked unit commanders upt an incluidn regimental commanders to a larger degree directly interact with the troops, and as such have more personal or if you will tactical command.

I can see any officer with 5D in command specialized as a field or staff officer, each offering some pros and cons.

Staff, recieve a bonus on commanding larger formations, such as fleets and armies, these officers often also hold higher ranks, like admirals or generals. They also recive a bonus to commanding officers in particular.

Filed officers recive a bonus to command smaller units, and they mostly commad NCO who in turn give the troops the details.
I can see them having a bonus with troops and ncos, and with small units, but a penalty to the wider picture, giving them a penalty to commad and tactics with large units etc.

I am not fully sure as to the numbers or what spesific bonuses, but to me it makes sense to have a difference in staff and field command with both having some bonuses and some penalties, but which ones.
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