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Mamatried
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 Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:28 pm Post subject: Is the Sith Code actually Evil? |
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I read the code as follows
Peace is a lie, there is only passion
-This is sort of true, there is always passion, it drives us, even the jedi who strives to be the best of his class, the patriot is passionate. Passion is everywhere and part of us
-Peace is for the most part an illusion, before the Phantom menace and the start of the clone wars, there was still not peace, it was for the most part unrest and even in some regions war
-Nothing evil in this one as I can see
Through passion, I gain strength.
-This one is easy, look at the motiation, the patriotic soldier, the idealist
they have a drive they often push themselfes, they gain strength from this passion
-Nothing evil in this one as I can see
Through strength, I gain power
-Related to the one above, it is through their gian of strength in conviction, strength of character, or of love or patriotism again, they overcome their challenge for the most part, and as such they gained strength
-Nothing evil in this one as I can see
Through power, I gain victory
-Again related to above, victory can be seen in many ways, the felling of success of having ran under the minute mile, the victory in combat naturally, or the completion of a goal one have set and as above had the drive and focus, or passion and strength to complete it.
-Nothing evil in this one as I can see
Through victory, my chains are broken
-This too can easily be related to the above, tyou have the feeling of success, tyou have accomplished, you have made your gola. you have grown more independent, more self asure and self sufficent, you are now free form being helpless or lesser or forom ever holds you back, again this can easily be related to the above
-Nothing evil in this one as I can see
The Force shall free me.
-Well this is not unlike how many others see the force, this is the "how to" for most if not all of the above.
a force user that never explores his potential but goes around wondering what is this odd thing inside them are not free, they are in prison by their own maybe belived or learned or imposed limitations
-Nothing evil in this one as I can see
reading I don't see anywhere: Go out into the galaxy, commit genocide and crate mayhem, kill the traitor jedi and all who oppse your rise to power over others.
Or maybe it is as simple as the sith code actually only saying this: Be the best you can be.
be true to your self and never give up.
As to the need for power, the sith we see do not follow this code, as they become slaves and thus UNFREE (the force shall set me free) to their constant addiction and need for mre power than they actually need.
So the code as I see it is about gorowing yourself as an individual, use your strenghts to overcome your weaknesses grow and evolve.
So exactly where is the sith code, and by that the "sith" that follow it evil as a group?
Now some can folow this to a degree in evilness, but once they begin to seek power for the sake of power, like a certian wrincky dink who wanted a fancy title, then they no longer follow the code and theu if seen in the most extrmeme also not sith,
so I dare say the evil doer sith are actually not sith, but break away, sect if you will
as the sith code if followed actually excludes in a large degree any ombpresent eveil and following it will even limit one self as to not even become a slave to neither code 8without breaking it) or the force or the limits place on selves.
is the sith evil, or is the fact that there are just "evil" people being sith or once been sith. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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If we look at it philosophically, we can see some evils.
There is a proverb:
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Given the sith's motivation to gain power, you could say that the sith code is a path to corruption through the self-serving persuit of power.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: Is the Sith Code actually Evil? |
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| Mamatried wrote: | | Is the Sith Code actually Evil? |
Yes.
Full disclosure - I did not yet read your OP. Something tells me I don't want to. I remember negative occurrences on the forum. But I am an extremely forgiving person so I tend to forget who says and does what. It is better that way because, if enough time goes by, past events color my perception of forum members less. Were you the one that posted the Empire apologetic? Please don't be that guy. Thanks.
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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I am not arguning that old sidious and those guys are in ay way ab\nything but eveil, maybe even of possible beyond evil
But are they actually sith as per the cose ot are they "another form of sig\th" that does not adhere to the code
as to the power corruptus and absulute power currupts absolutely this is true.
but power alos set free, strengthens and more in a positive sense.
the poor farmer suddenly got the ecconimical power to better his situation.
the force can not set you free if you are a slave to it or still to your passions, that are meant to be fuel, not a guide.
how can anyone a slave to power to be absoultely corrupted be the "strong"
corruption is by itself something that weakens.
so I will argue there is nothing in the sith code that inherently evli.
hoowever there have been no (self proclaimed) sith that truly followed the code.
I am also fully aware that the sith code was written by dark jedi that had enslaved and was facinated by the savary of the pure blood sith species.
but agiain this would like claiming that due to the torture and the persecusions of the spanish iquisition, chatolisim is inherently evil.
every one of the inquisitors and popes and priests all would go to their deaths caling for their soul to be catholic.
No I am not rasining a religion debate here is not the place for it, nor am I taking of the actions of the sith "order" if you will, or the lack of action of the jedi that I can argu through action are far from good, and that their code maybe actually is more "allowing" and "liberal" as to good and evil.
"in order for evil to triumph, all that is needed is for the good men to turn away"
Now the jedi and how they interperated their code, basically did the above, they allowed evil to flourish in some cases, by simply turning away... not interfearing.
so other than obvious actions we see in the heroes and the villains, do we really see the "codes" in play.
Even the old fart, sidious himself was not free........the force did not in any way set him free, he was a slave to his passion, his need for power even so much it enslaved him.
so if we read the code and not think of what we see the jedi (not) do and the sith do, are the codes really good and eveil manifests, or are they a be an individual be the best you can be for you
and be for others the best you can be for them
basically live an idividual for yourself, selfishly or not, ot live for others, realizing their visions and their dreams for you, but not your own
to me that is the fundamnetal differnence between the swo codes as written, the actuons of the followers on the other hand I think we all agree are sothing that is very much good and evil. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:03 am Post subject: |
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I am with Namman. Though if you look at it philosophically, there's nothing inherently evil in the Words. BUT IN THE ACTIONS, the sith PoV is very evil. Power for the Sake of power, is evil. Its selfish.
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | If we look at it philosophically, we can see some evils.
There is a proverb:
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Given the sith's motivation to gain power, you could say that the sith code is a path to corruption through the self-serving persuit of power. |
This. Sorry, I'm not one of those people who agrees with Sith as "Good Guys". I actually tried to run it once in a game and he just used it as an excuse to be a dick to the rest of the party. So, no; Sith are Evil.
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | If we look at it philosophically, we can see some evils.
There is a proverb:
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Given the sith's motivation to gain power, you could say that the sith code is a path to corruption through the self-serving persuit of power. |
This. Sorry, I'm not one of those people who agrees with Sith as "Good Guys". I actually tried to run it once in a game and he just used it as an excuse to be a dick to the rest of the party. So, no; Sith are Evil. |
I never argued that the sith (as we know them) are in any ways good guys, I am arguing that id one that decides to follow the sith code does not have to be evil.
there is nothing in the code isolated that even "allows" for eveil any more than the jedi code.
the sith as we know them I would call a sect adherent to the code but with their own interpretation.
an athlete fighting through stife and traning, competion and is passionate about betterin himself, he does this and becomes victorious several time as he reaches career and traning thresholds.
He is free eventually having fulfilled his dream, he has power, power to to all this, physical power as well tp perform and power of influnece in maybe being the top of his game and an idol for many.
he is force sensitive and used the force all through this to become the galact champion of distance running.....where is the eveil in that?
Where does the sith code state that you must kill anyone, that ylu must only desire power above all else?
is this written in the code?
or is this how this was interepreted by those that we now call the sith "order" or basically the anti jedi.
if the argument is that the sith do eveil thus the words of the code must be evil, then what about non sith, non jedi that do eveil, the same things, dark horrible things, genosice and enslavement....but they do not claim at least to adhere to the code of the sith,
jorrus chaboet or what ever the outbound flight cloned jedi maser was called, was as dark and insane as they come,a nd he claimed, in fact he was convinved he was a jedi....readin "his thing" into the jedi code
this them makes the jedi code and the jedi evil righ?
I am talking of the sith code, not the sith cult
wheren in the text does it state anything about evel, about ruling above others and more? |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:13 am Post subject: |
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I'm with the others... the Sith code isn't inherently Dark, nor is the Jedi code inherently Light... but they lend themselves to their usual alignment.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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The Sith Code is not inherently evil, but it is inherently selfish, and there is significant overlap between selfishness and evil.
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | The Sith Code is not inherently evil, but it is inherently selfish, and there is significant overlap between selfishness and evil. |
is it really selfish?
I never states " I "
As I read it it is about self, and while that can be seen as somehow selfish, I don't see it apply any more or less here than in any other text or code.
the code doe not say take from the weak, or take by force, or even think of self only.
But to put it isn a little bit of a wide perspective: Firefighters that don't first and formost think self (as in safety) can not perform for others.
so I can not see how the code about beng your better self through the force as the code is isolated, is in any way more selfih that if push the jedi code to the same extrmeme, no attachement......or not caring, letting things do as they do.
there is a saying that all evil need to prevail is for good men to do nothing.....jedi did what?
not what they was supposed to do, but how far did they push their code, how many planets was under severe conflict that the altruistic do good for all always did in fact fix?
Slavery in zyggeria?
Hut worlds?
Spice trade?
So where is the code about being any more selfish that the jedi code that while not stating is interpreted as do not mingle into things, aka let eveil happen and turn the blind eye.
what part of the sith code is about selfishnes other than bettering self.
a father bettering himself getting a better job for his family is selfish becuse he bettered himself, or is he maybe selfish for not even botheing?
Now we are into the various interpretations of the code and codes as they do relate to eachother.
but is the code and is following the code as it is written in any way evil of selfish=) |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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...
Peace is a lie. There is only Passion.
Through Passion I gain Strength.
Through Strength I gain Power.
Through Power I gain Victory.
Through Victory my chains are Broken.
The Force shall free me.
Did you even read the Code before you replied?
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Xain Arke
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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The Sith Code IS evil...within the confines of the Star Wars Universe, as the Sith ARE evil.
Outside of the bounds of the fictional universe, you can argue semantics of the code all you want.  |
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | ANAKIN: The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves.
PALPATINE: And the Jedi don't?
ANAKIN: The Jedi are selfless . . . they only care about others. |
Palpatine didn't even try to defend the Sith. Instead he tried to paint the Jedi as just as bad as the Sith. That is not true, but telling. His whole tactic for converting Anakin was the implication that Sith had a power the Jedi didn't. Anakin didn't even convert based on some justification, like, "It is bad but I am going to use the power for good." Anakin became exactly how he had described the Sith, thinking inward, only of his self. When he converted, he whined, "*I* can't loose her." Forget about Padme, and the child. Me me me. I need my girlfriend. Only after his power increased by all the dark side actions he had done, then he half-@ss tried to temp Padme that he could overpower Palpatine become the new emperor.
Mamatried, yes, the fictional Sith Lords are explicitly evil, and the stories do not portray their in-universe "code" as inspiring them to benevolence in the galaxy. So there is absolutely no evidence to support that the Sith Code has any good value in-universe.
If you are arguing that the Sith Code is not an evil philosophy in real life, you are free to believe that but what is your point here for us? Is it that the country you live in should adjust its laws to conform to the Sith Code? How does that have anything to do with the rest of us? Is this a pointless thought experiment? Are you suggesting that the Rancor Pit should adjust the policies to conform to the Sith Code? Not gonna happen. Is this a social experiment? That wasn't approved by me. Or are you trying to troll us? That is explicitly against the 'Rancor Code.' In the Rancor Pit, the rancor can eat the trolls.
Mamatried, if you cannot coherently explain your motivation and provide an acceptable justification for this thread, then I ask you to please cease and desist. Sure, I can lock this thread, but I am asking you to cease and desist this behavior in all threads. It is against the 'Rancor Code' to push things to the limit and just to see what you can get away with. I already warned you above to not be that guy. Please do not ignore this and keep arguing with other people as if you didn't see my post. Thank you.
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 3:05 am Post subject: |
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Self vs ....for others.
living a life for others is slaversy, living a life for self is fredom.
again where other than it the actions of the "adherents" is there anything explisitly evil about the code?
Now it is from an in universe aspect so that only the sith code is evil, the jedi code is good, whern we have blatantly evil jedi.
Followers of the "good" code, angels and altrusitic philatroprists the lot of them, then suddenly they begin do eveil deeds, never had a dday in their life with anything close to the sith....they are the "dark jedi"
Opppps they folled the jedi code, though "twisted" so it suited them as evil jedi.
Well so according ghe arguments here that no matter what, a cose is inherently evil when the followers of this code does evil.
So the jedi are then accodring to you evil?
My question is this.
A man burns with the passion to climb mountains'
he usues the code as written to be a better mountanerer, the best he can be.
he is also force sensitive.
where in the code as written, does it state he must commiti evil acts doing it?
As for the sith vs jedi code rela life, you can not abide by one without the other.
You MUST be a strong self in order to be srong of others, letting the word strong have several meanings in the contex. |
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Xain Arke
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| Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 8:11 am Post subject: |
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The 'Evil Jedi' argument for the Jedi Code being no better than Sith Code is not a particularly valid one in my opinion, because every Jedi that has done evil deeds
broke the Jedi Code to do/justify it. They became selfish, angry, hopeless, greedy, immoral etc. acting for themsleves rather than others...just like the Sith
Anakin is Angry and selfish
General Krell is Greedy and Immoral
Baris Offee is Hopless, Angry and Immoral
Also, the Sith Code, just like the Jedi Code, is not just words to live by, it is a philosophy of HOW to use the Force, it's training in the Dark Side.
So again, in Universe, the Sith and their code ARE evil.
Outside of the Fictional Star Wars Universe...Debates are to be had
On a related note to that, do you believe living life for others is slavery Mamatried or are you meaning from a Sith perspective in Star Wars? |
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