Running space combat with a map (in Roll20 or another)

[LUZ-TAK]

Hello there! When I played tabletop, all space combat and action ws "theater of the mind" stuff and it worked all right. But now I'm gamemastering on Roll20, and I'm having second thoughts.

With my current campaign running on Roll20, I ran a ground combat scene with my players to learn the ropes of the system, and it just "felt" wrong and disconnected, just a bunch of rolls to hit and dodge. Next session, we dialed back and replayed the scene, now using a map and tokens, and the fight played way better: players got more involved, they used terrain to their advantage, made tactical decisions, etc.

I am concerned the same might happen with the combat scene I am planning to run. Just using descriptions might feel “empty” or “too-little”. But then again, I had tons of ground combat experience using a map and tokens, but none running a space combat scene before.

Has anyone tried it? Any tips or hints on how to do it properly?
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[Whill]

I see your dilemma. Space is 3D, and it is really difficult to faithfully represent this outside of theater of the mind. So the only way I've known some gamers to make it work with a physical representation is by handwaving space to only be 2D, which I just can't bring myself to do. But I haven't played the game online so I'm afraid I can't help. Sorry.
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[LUZ-TAK]

I think the 3d/2D aspect of the issue is not such a big problem. I was not really asking how to solve that particular issue.
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I’m one with the force
The force is my ally

[Whill]

[LUZ-TAK]

Right now Im stuck trying to get Roll20 to give me a larger grid...
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I’m one with the force
The force is my ally

[MrNexx]

You might take a look at Savage Worlds: Adventure Edition's chase rules. I'll try to convert them a bit, here.

You put out 9 cards. The person in the rear is on card 1; everyone else is somewhere along the line. Each card represents some range increment... in Star Wars, you might make these a few space range units each -- like, one card might be 3 space units, so 9 cards back would be 27 space units. Are you one card behind them? Then you're in short range for a lot of starfighter weapons; if you're 2 cards back, you're likely in medium range.

Once per turn, the driver/pilot can make a Change Position action. If they succeed, they move 1 card in the way they want; converting this to d6, I'd allow them to take a -1D MAP to try and move two cards, instead. The GM should give a bonus based on relative speed (I would go with a penalty to the slower vehicle equal to the difference between the speeds they're traveling at).

The Pilot can, in addition to (or instead of) their Change Position action, can make actions to Dodge, Flee (if they're 4 or more cards ahead), Hold Steady (to make shooting easier). Savage Worlds also includes some special effects based on the cards dealt and so on. Gunners can shoot during their turn, and so on. I'd probably apply a penalty to any shooting based on the number of Dodges taken, as if they were MAPs.
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[Dredwulf60]

I game on Roll 20.

The way I handle space battles is broken down to 2 parts.

Part 1

There's the map that shows relative positions. This is useful if you need to keep track of several groups of ships.

I make this the hex map. Each hex is 10 space areas or so. I have some house rules for movement on this map, but without getting into them, it's just a way to track where the ships are.

Part 2

There's the space dogfighting.

Once two ships enter dogfighting range, say, adjacent hexes, then they are in typically dogfighting each other. They generally stay within that general area of the map until one or the other is defeated or runs.

I handle the dogfights mostly in 'theater of the mind' but backed up by positional tokens, mainly to show which ship is in a tailing position, or whether they are on approaching headings, etc.

This relative position with each other helps to visualize and good piloting rolls can see ships go from being tailed, to neutral position jockeying for advantage, to being the tailing aggressor and back again.

Meanwhile, other ships on the map might be closing in on the dogfight and may get added in when they 'get there', while ships that successfully break contact and are not pursued might leave the dogfight and put distance on the map.

[LUZ-TAK]

[LUZ-TAK]

Just checked the Star Warriors manual and it's not the ruleset I remember. Maybe it was a D20 material?

Edited: this looks like it: https://swse.fandom.com/wiki/Pilot_(Vehicle_Combat)#Dogfight

Seems would be easy to adapto to D6.
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I’m one with the force
The force is my ally

[Dredwulf60]

[Dredwulf60]

Here's my starfighter/ dogfight rules if you want to use them, or use some of them...or use none of them.
May be a bit more crunchy than you like.
Anything that doesn't make sense....means its probably tied to some other house rule of mine.

Also,
CRMcNeil has some detailed starfighter combat rules as well on here.

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–--------------------------------------------------------------
Close Engagement /DOGFIGHTING

Positions:

Head On
Both fighters are traveling toward each other. Their flight paths are within a 90 degree front arc of the other. Usually this position doesn’t last long, as they soon pass by each other.



Tailing
One craft is chasing the other, and is roughly within 90 degrees rear arc of the target craft.



Oblique:
One craft is approaching the other, from the side, top or bottom. Situation is summarized as any time the craft are closing with one another and they are not in a head-on or tailing position.



Neutral
Both craft are moving in the same or opposite directions. Summarized as any time the craft are not closing with each other, and neither is in the tailing position. Characterized by the fact that neither is in a position to fire on the other with forward axis weapons.
The fluid dynamics of shifting from one situation to another is what makes up a classic dogfight.



RESOLVING the POSITIONS

Head-on:

Determine distance and speed, to find range and rate of closure.
Initial range in a fight is often determined by sensor detection range.
Missiles fired in a head-on position have only half their guidance. (Round down).
Both craft attack as normal, and evade as normal, until they pass by each other.

After passing each other, both craft may continue to fly away from each other and leave the close engagement.
Both may attempt to turn, in which case the pilots make a roll to see how tightly they can turn 180 or one can make a run, or both can run.

Both try to Turn:
Both pilots roll their pilot + maneuver dice.
If both achieve higher than a 10 they are moved into the neutral position.
If both achieve higher than a 20 they are moved back into a Head-on position.
If one achieves a higher category than the other, he moves into an oblique advantage.
If one achieves two categories higher than the other, he moves into a tailing position.

One tries to run:
If only one pilot attempts a turn, and the other runs, the turning pilot makes a Pilot +Maneuver roll, The fleeing pilot rolls his speed test.
Speed test is: 1D6 per space speed rating of the craft, plus the pilot’d DEX as a pip bonus.
-----Running pilot wins:
If the running pilot wins, apply the difference in the scores to the speed test chart to see how many boxes ahead to place him.

----- Turning pilot wins:
The turning pilot is now has the advantage in a tailing position. Range 3D6.

Both try to run:
Both pilots continue away from each other at speed. They have left dogfighting engagement. Return to hex map movement or attempt sensor-range re-engagement.

Oblique:
From the oblique position, the pilot with the advantage can make a single attack before both craft automatically slip into a Neutral position.
The pilot with the advantage can give up this free attack, in favor of attempting to move into an even more advantageous Tailingposition:
Both craft make pilot+ maneuver rolls.

----- Advantaged pilot rolls higher: he moves into a Tailing position.

----- Defending pilot rolls higher: they both move into a Neutral position.



Tailing:
Once in a tailing position, the pilot with the advantage can attack the defender with a bonus dependent on his range.

Initial range: If he just moved into a tail from an oblique position, he is 3D6 space areas away.

The attack:
The attacker rolls Starship gunnery + Fire control dice.
If the target is in the point blank range band (1/2 the short band) the attacker has a +15 to hit.
If the target is within the short range band, the attacker has a +10 to hit.
If the target is in within the medium range band, the attacker has a +5 to hit.
If the target is in the long range band, the attacker has +0 to hit.
The dodge:
The target can evade these attacks by rolling Pilot+ Maneuver dice. (The Defender does not lose dice for evading multiple attacks from one attacker.)
The shake:

After the attack phase the defending pilot can make a maneuver to try to shake the tail:
He rolls his Pilot skill+Maneuver dice, and adds a bonus based on range:
(Generally the closer the tail is, the more accurate his fire, but the easier he is to shake.)
Craft distance --- Bonus to pilot maneuver roll to shake
1 areas --- +8
2-3 areas --- +6
4-7 areas --- +4
8-15 areas--- +2
16+areas --- +1

The aggressor must roll his own pilot+ maneuver and match this roll to maintain the tailing position.
--If he matches the target’s roll but not the bonus, he moves into an oblique position.
--If he matches the target’s roll with the bonus, he maintains the tailing position may increase or decrease his range by up to his space speed rating and make an attack.
--If he fails to match the target’s roll, then he moves into a neutral position.

Neutral:
In a neutral position relationship, both pilots can maneuvering for advantage, or one can attempt to run or both can attempt to run.
Both maneuvering:
Both make Pilot+maneuver rolls. The higher moves into an advantaged Oblique position. (see above)

One tries to run:
The fleeing pilot rolls his speed test: Speed test is: 1D6 per space speed rating of the craft, plus the pilot’s DEX as a pip bonus.
and the maneuvering pilot rolls his: Pilot +Maneuver roll.

Running pilot wins:
If the running pilot wins, apply the difference in the scores to the speed test chart to see how many boxes ahead to place him.

Maneuvering pilot wins:
The turning pilot is now has the advantage in a tailing position. Range 3D6.
Both try to run:
Both pilots continue away from each other at speed. They have left dogfighting engagement. Return to hex map movement or attempt sensor-range re-engagement

NOTES:

Gunners in a dogfight:
After each position test a gunner can make one attack on a target within his arc of fire.
The target of the attack can make a free dodge attempt. (Pilot+ maneuver).

–-Forward arc weapons: Can only attack when the opponent is head-on or when tailing the opponent.
–-Side arc weapons: Can attack when the opponent is neutral position or oblique (advantaged or disadvantaged)
–-Rear arc weapons: Can attack when the opponent is tailing or when the opponent has an oblique advantage.

Turrets:
Turrets will have the characteristics of each arc them encompass.

Wild ‘1’ rolls:
On a speed test: Check wear on the sublight drive and powerplant
On maneuvering: Check wear on the sublight drive and Stabilizers.
On an attack roll: Check wear on the weapon system
On a soak roll: Check wear on shields (if applicable) and seals

[/u]

[CRMcNeill]

[LTAaripJasall]

I have been running games in Roll20 for several years now, and to speak to a few points here:

- Try and play it fast, and set the mood with fast battle music built into roll20 playing in the background.
- I use a hex grid, and change the Roll20 settings to call each hex "1 Space"
- With the grid set to 1 Space range, it becomes easy to measure weapon ranges and move distances.
- Important: Have a clearly defined win/loss condition in your mind. They need to reach a line to jump out of the gravity well, need to reach a map edge to escape the star destroyer, have 2d6 rounds to reboot the hyperdrive et al.
- Try to use some really loose and fast rules for combined banks of weapons on capital ships. Nothing slows it down like making the players wait for 20 individual weapon shots
- I actually do use the initiative turn tracker, and have characters who take multiple actions go at the end of the first pass of initiative. Remember to play it fast. The tracker can bog things down if you don't click through it quickly
-Try to make things dramatic and threatening. "Crev, the lancer frigate tracer fire is arcing towards you!" is way better than "uh, Crev, its your turn."
-And please for the love of all your players, give them each things to do, if not everyone is a pilot or gunner, think back to the star wars movies. A fire breaks out on board the 'Falcon and R2 has to put it out. A system cuts out and Han yells for a hydrospanner while they fix it below the deck plates (while being shot at). In a recent game a roll of 1 on the wild die left a live torpedo in the tube, and it gave our more engineering and technical minded players plenty of excitement as the whole freighter depended on them.

Also, when combat is over, drop out of the hex grid and go back to your theater-of-the-mind table or landing page, and change the music to slow things down.

[Urban Spaceman]

I have a map showing their relative positions, but have a range bar along the bottom of the screen with copies of the token showing their distances from the PC's ship.
I only give the range in terms of range, rather than include precise numerical Units.

It seems to work ok, and I use a similar range bar for chases too.
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"The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't."

[DougRed4]