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MrNexx
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 Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:46 am Post subject: Growpramming |
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Reference to here
So, how do droids get their personalities? We know that two R2 astromechs will roll off the line with different skills, but how do they wind up with different personalities? Do we have any information about this?
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Xain Arke
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Don't know the official answer, but I always thought that they come out of the factory stock and develop specific personality traits and
behaviours as they experience the galaxy at large. The less memory wiped they are, the more personality they have. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Same here. MOST folks DO continually memory wipe their droids, SO THEY DON'T get personalities.. Our "Film and book heroes" don't, for what ever reasons.
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Growpramming |
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I didn't read the cartoon but I have a bad feeling about this thread. Nexx, I'm sure you have been involved in prior discussions about droids. Were there no prior threads that already discussed your question? Unfortunately Star Wars fans can get very heated when the conversation gets to topics surrounding droid sentience and rights discussions. Maybe a prior thread was closed so that's why you started a new one? It's not an off limits topic or anything, but your OP reads like this is a new subject that has never come up before. Has it not?
| MrNexx wrote: | | We know that two R2 astromechs will roll off the line with different skills |
Do we know this? I can't imagine why that would be the case, unless they are making multiple variants (like starfighter focus vs capital ship focus, etc.) By default, all R2 units or all of a certain variant should roll out of the factory with the same exact skills, not different skills. When you buy a new droid, there should be a consistently skilled product you are paying for. Otherwise buying a new droid is like a lottery of what skills it will have and how good it will be. I know this wasn't the thrust of your question, but it is worded as a premise of your question and I don't think this premise is correct.
| MrNexx wrote: | | So, how do droids get their personalities? ...how do they wind up with different personalities? Do we have any information about this? |
| Xain Arke wrote: | I always thought that they come out of the factory stock and develop specific personality traits and
behaviours as they experience the galaxy at large. The less memory wiped they are, the more personality they have. |
| garhkal wrote: | | Same here. MOST folks DO continually memory wipe their droids, SO THEY DON'T get personalities. |
I also concur. There is both "nature" and "nurture" for droids, like any other sentient being. Droids comes out of the factory the same skills and little personality. Different droid models might have some personality tendencies they develop, regardless of their experiences, but their experiences can influence their personalities, which are a side effect of memories of their experiences. Wiping their memory is like a factory reset (except for improved skills).
For example, it was suggested by WEG that 3PO protocol droids tend to develop similar personalities to Threepio. The Lucas films back this by showing that a couple decades after his memory wipe at the end of RotS, Threepio had gotten back to his same old self, just without the memories he had before the wipe. (Which makes you wonder, what would Threepio's personality had been like if he had had to live with memories of the tragedy of Padme's death and Anakin's turn to the Dark Side?)
Some Disney films suggest that droid personalities are affected by how they are treated. If droids are mistreated, they seem quick to rebel en masse against their mean masters once that restraining bolt has been deactivated. Personally I like that.
| garhkal wrote: | | MOST folks DO continually memory wipe their droids, SO THEY DON'T get personalities.. Our "Film and book heroes" don't, for what ever reasons. |
They don't for our benefit, so droid characters have personality. Quirky droids are fun. And it goes to show you that if you (mostly) treat your droids with respect and care about their well being, they tend to be loyal to you. This loyalty could translate in the droid going above and beyond for you, instead of following its program to minimal degree. Artoo certainly went above and beyond to save Padme on Geonosis, completely disregarding the danger Threepio was in.
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Forceally
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Though there are times you have to wonder if the memory wipe really works. Prime example - C-3PO. In the prequels, he was quick to panic. He wasn't that subtle or discrete. Didn't know when to keep quiet or not volunteer information. And whenever he heard or encountered something negative, he quickly believed the worst case scenario to be the truth. While he may have forgotten about Anakin, Padmé, and everything and everyone else after Bail Organa ordered the memory wipe, those parts of his personality survived the wipe. Either those are symptoms of a permanent glitch or a side-effect of the parts Anakin used in building him.
I'm half convinced R2 kept a copy of all of 3PO's memories. After he lost his memories in TROS, R2 said to himself, "No way am I going to go through this again!" and restored all of 3PO's memories. |
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is possible for memory wipes to not be 100% effective, and in Threepio's case it could have been because of being reconstructed from the components of three junked protocol droids by a slave on Tatooine. But we can't really say how much personality survived the wipe, because it happened offscreen after the last time we saw him for 19 years. All we know is that by 19 years later, he had returned to the same basic personality. One possibility is the basic "nature" of his model of protocol droids tend to have a certain personality if they go years without a mind wipe. There is both nature and nurture going on in droids, but how much of both and in what circumstances is debatable.
| Forceally wrote: | | I'm half convinced R2 kept a copy of all of 3PO's memories. After he lost his memories in TROS, R2 said to himself, "No way am I going to go through this again!" and restored all of 3PO's memories. |
Well you know what I think of TRoS, but yeah. Actually I like to believe that right after RotJ, Artoo fully restored Threepio's memories of the PT-era (while keeping his memories of since then too).
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Growpramming |
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| Whill wrote: |
| MrNexx wrote: | | We know that two R2 astromechs will roll off the line with different skills |
Do we know this? I can't imagine why that would be the case, unless they are making multiple variants (like starfighter focus vs capital ship focus, etc.) By default, all R2 units or all of a certain variant should roll out of the factory with the same exact skills, not different skills. When you buy a new droid, there should be a consistently skilled product you are paying for. Otherwise buying a new droid is like a lottery of what skills it will have and how good it will be. I know this wasn't the thrust of your question, but it is worded as a premise of your question and I don't think this premise is correct. |
No, it is not. I wrote the complete opposite word in there for reasons I do not know.
As for previous threads, this is related, and only about personality, not about rights or anything like that. How do droids get the personalities they have? I mostly linked the comic because I was using the "growpramming", which I figured worked well for this discussion.
What actually inspired it was watching Clone Wars, and thinking about the Battle Droids, who are
a) very stupid
b) extremely similar in personality, despite clearly viewing themselves as individuals (i.e. two Battle Droids will have a conversation about observations, and try to convince the other to do things).
The first can be understood by hardware limitations... they were given cheap processors with limited capacity. But the second is harder to figure out.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:34 am Post subject: Re: Growpramming |
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| Whill wrote: |
They don't for our benefit, so droid characters have personality. Quirky droids are fun. And it goes to show you that if you (mostly) treat your droids with respect and care about their well being, they tend to be loyal to you. This loyalty could translate in the droid going above and beyond for you, instead of following its program to minimal degree. Artoo certainly went above and beyond to save Padme on Geonosis, completely disregarding the danger Threepio was in. |
True, its for us "Fans" that the film makers, gave us come very quirky droids (also to sell toys!), same with the novel writers.
| Forceally wrote: | | I'm half convinced R2 kept a copy of all of 3PO's memories. After he lost his memories in TROS, R2 said to himself, "No way am I going to go through this again!" and restored all of 3PO's memories |
That wouldn't surprise me one bit.
| Whill wrote: | | All we know is that by 19 years later, he had returned to the same basic personality. One possibility is the basic "nature" of his model of protocol droids tend to have a certain personality if they go years without a mind wipe. There is both nature and nurture going on in droids, but how much of both and in what circumstances is debatable. |
Whill, maybe each model, has a 'default' personality, that the droid will develop, without external influencers..
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Whill
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:45 am Post subject: Re: Growpramming |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | All we know is that by 19 years later, he had returned to the same basic personality. One possibility is the basic "nature" of his model of protocol droids tend to have a certain personality if they go years without a mind wipe. There is both nature and nurture going on in droids, but how much of both and in what circumstances is debatable. |
Whill, maybe each model, has a 'default' personality, that the droid will develop, without external influencers.. |
Yeah, that's kinda what I'm saying. Periodic memory wipes is probably the norm, the manufacturer recommended process for owning a droid, to prevent the personality tendencies from coming out too much. If they don't do the wipes, then the personality develops more. But I still think that there is some nurture involved too. If a droid is not mind wiped but treated well, it will be better than if you abuse the droid. Maybe periodic mind wipes are the recommendation because so many droid owners mistreat droids.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:20 am Post subject: |
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I'd actually worked with the memory wipe and personality development as a character design once. I had some buy-in from the people I was playing with, and I played a droid that was glitchy. I would start off the character flat and personality-less. Then over a period of time, the personality would develop. And then the personality would start to creep into eccentric, and then into too quirky to be good for the droid's own good. The party would do a memory wipe, and then the personality would go flat, and then develop a new one with a new set of quirks.
The PC playing my master would try to judge the right moment where he wanted to independent thought of the personality, but also not wanting the droid to become too quirky.
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