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The Bissler Commander
Joined: 08 Jun 2016 Posts: 260
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2020 4:35 pm Post subject: Multiple Blaster Shots And Fire Rate |
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In REUP page 92 it mentions that a weapon can only be fired as many times as indicated on the weapon's Fire Rate.
Some examples in the book contradict this, as blasters are described as firing multiple times. (I can't recall where, but I know I've seen it.)
However, having played the game with players firing multiple shots with their blasters, it led to the situation of Blaster becoming the focus of almost my whole team's character advancement and it's hard to say they were wrong to do so. It seems obvious that higher Blaster Skill = more shots at Stormtroopers and that is the #1 pastime of players in Star Wars.
Now that I've noticed the Fire Rate rule, the game has far better balance with the PCs being limited to 1 attack per round. This also gives the Stormtroopers a better chance to deal some damage back to the PCs which I really like too.
Now that my players have noticed this, I expect dual-wielding blaster pistols is going to become very popular! Admittedly that's cool, but it's not really the thing you see characters do often in Star Wars.
One of my players is a Mon Calamari who abhors violence, but accepts it is sometimes necessary, so he has his weapon constantly on stun. It's actually quite a clever move when reduced to 1 shot per turn as it increases the effectiveness of his blaster considerably - how many times will a combat last for a few minutes that recovering Stormtroopers is something they need to worry about? I think I may introduce a few rare situations where the odd Stormtrooper manages to revive way before he was supposed to, just to keep him and the rest of the team on their toes.
I was wondering, which weapons have a Fire Rate of 2+? I didn't notice any in the REUP rules. |
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Xain Arke Line Captain
Joined: 19 Sep 2010 Posts: 989
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2020 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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The more important question is, can a weapon with no fire rate value fire as many shots as the character's skill allows/ammo lasts?
Specifically though, the “Blast and Smash” Energy Rifle from Galaxy Guide 10 has a fire rate of 7 in blaster mode. There are a few others that also have
a 2+ fire rate, Alliance Adjudicator slugthrower (2), Kelvarlek Dissuader (2), Golan Arms Blister Blaster (3) and the Riot Suppression Gun (2)
There are probably more but these are all from various supplements, not a core book |
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Mamatried Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017 Posts: 1856 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2020 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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I made a very simple house rule on multi shots/autofire.
if you choos multishot you add 1D to the damage but reduce the shooting skill by 1D.
To me multifire is 2-3 shots
On Autofire I add 2D to damage but I reduce shooting skill by 2D
Autofire is full auto/5shot burst
Multifire Using Blaster Skill 5D
Imperial rpeating Pistol 6D Damg Multifire
Rolling 4D/3D Blaster (armor and MAP adds to this) and you hit.
you now roll 7D/8D danage, as the clustered shots cause much more damage/trauma.
All Blasters can shoot 2 shots rapidly, Multishot rating determine how many shots can be shot on multishot, and autofire allows for burst fire.
All powerpacks have limited charges from 1-100 Shots depending on weapon. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16283 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 11:16 am Post subject: |
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IMO, giving weapons a Fire Rate of 1 was a mistake in 2R&E, given that combat rounds are ~5 seconds long, and blaster pistols can often be seen snapping off multiple shots in rapid succession. In fact, firing off a barrage of shots seems to be the only way to take out a Jedi with a blaster. My take is that Fire Rate should represent a technical limitation of the weapon itself, such as a portable laser cannon requiring a round or two to recharge, or the time needed to reload a missile launcher, etc. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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The Bissler Commander
Joined: 08 Jun 2016 Posts: 260
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Interesting thoughts all!
@Xain: I'll have a more thorough look through my shelf of supplements, thanks!
@Mamatried: I like this idea! I think I'd be inclined to limit successive hits to +1 (rather than 1D) to damage, again, so as to avoid players getting too obsessed with boosting Blaster skill.
@CR: I completely sympathise with your argument here. When you compare blaster now to what happens in the films, limiting the players to a single shot feels counter-intuitive but, as I'm enjoying a better balance to combat, I'm extremely reluctant to revert back to the unlimited shots method. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16283 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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The Bissler wrote: | When you compare blaster now to what happens in the films, limiting the players to a single shot feels counter-intuitive but, as I'm enjoying a better balance to combat, I'm extremely reluctant to revert back to the unlimited shots method. | But it's not really unlimited. A character may be able to squeeze off a bunch of shots, but the more the MAPs stack up, the less likely it becomes that all those shots are actually going to hit anything.
That's the great thing about the appearance of unlimited shots; characters can try anything, but skill levels, Difficulties and MAPs all provide a limiting effect while simultaneously leaving open the possibility of spectacular success results via spending CP or FP and/or via runaway Wild Dice.
But just something is possible doesn't mean it's probable. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14173 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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CRMcNeill wrote: | IMO, giving weapons a Fire Rate of 1 was a mistake in 2R&E, given that combat rounds are ~5 seconds long, and blaster pistols can often be seen snapping off multiple shots in rapid succession. In fact, firing off a barrage of shots seems to be the only way to take out a Jedi with a blaster. My take is that Fire Rate should represent a technical limitation of the weapon itself, such as a portable laser cannon requiring a round or two to recharge, or the time needed to reload a missile launcher, etc. |
I can see single shot fire rates for rifles/sniper rifles, and heavy pistols as a limiter to how damaging the could be, but carbines and regular pistols, no.. They shouldn't have had a limiter.. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10406 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Multiple Blaster Shots And Fire Rate |
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The Bissler wrote: | In REUP page 92 it mentions that a weapon can only be fired as many times as indicated on the weapon's Fire Rate.
Some examples in the book contradict this, as blasters are described as firing multiple times. (I can't recall where, but I know I've seen it.)
However, having played the game with players firing multiple shots with their blasters, it led to the situation of Blaster becoming the focus of almost my whole team's character advancement and it's hard to say they were wrong to do so. It seems obvious that higher Blaster Skill = more shots at Stormtroopers and that is the #1 pastime of players in Star Wars.
Now that I've noticed the Fire Rate rule, the game has far better balance with the PCs being limited to 1 attack per round. This also gives the Stormtroopers a better chance to deal some damage back to the PCs which I really like too.
Now that my players have noticed this, I expect dual-wielding blaster pistols is going to become very popular! Admittedly that's cool, but it's not really the thing you see characters do often in Star Wars.
One of my players is a Mon Calamari who abhors violence, but accepts it is sometimes necessary, so he has his weapon constantly on stun. It's actually quite a clever move when reduced to 1 shot per turn as it increases the effectiveness of his blaster considerably - how many times will a combat last for a few minutes that recovering Stormtroopers is something they need to worry about? I think I may introduce a few rare situations where the odd Stormtrooper manages to revive way before he was supposed to, just to keep him and the rest of the team on their toes.
I was wondering, which weapons have a Fire Rate of 2+? I didn't notice any in the REUP rules. |
According to this Q&A with an author of 2e R&E, no personal weapons should have a rate of fire:
Quote: | Q. In all entries for weapons that I have found, the Rate of Fire weapons is listed as one (1). Why did you do this now in the new rules, but still say that people can still do multiple action in a round with a cumulative -1D after the first action? (ed. You’ll have to interpret this one. Just give us the full rules with Rate of Fire).
A. Rate of Fire refers to how many shots per round a weapon can be fired, except in the main rules, where the inclusion of an RoF for the personal weapons was an error. |
REUP is an expansion of R&E, and unfortunately it reproduced errors in the book, like saying there are 60 seconds in a hour. _________________ *
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The Bissler Commander
Joined: 08 Jun 2016 Posts: 260
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent, thanks Whill!
Interestingly, my players feel the balance of the game is far better for limiting the blasters to 1 shot per round (this same group played 52 sessions for my previous completely home-brew campaign so they know the system well) - some are even reluctant to adopt Mamatried's custom rule, even though I ruled multiple shots would provide only a +1 rather than +1D bonus! Given that Force Points are massively diminished by the restrictions on attacks, I thought the players would bite my arm off for any bonus but it seems not!
Our next session is tomorrow night so we will rule on this one way or another! I'll let you all know the outcome! |
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10406 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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The Bissler wrote: | Excellent, thanks Whill!
Interestingly, my players feel the balance of the game is far better for limiting the blasters to 1 shot per round (this same group played 52 sessions for my previous completely home-brew campaign so they know the system well) - some are even reluctant to adopt Mamatried's custom rule, even though I ruled multiple shots would provide only a +1 rather than +1D bonus! Given that Force Points are massively diminished by the restrictions on attacks, I thought the players would bite my arm off for any bonus but it seems not!
Our next session is tomorrow night so we will rule on this one way or another! I'll let you all know the outcome! |
Like CRM said, ignoring the rate of fire for personal weapons doesn't mean it unlimited. Even with FPs, MAPs will limit how many shots can be fired. Let us know how it goes. _________________ *
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The Bissler Commander
Joined: 08 Jun 2016 Posts: 260
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, yes, I didn't address that point. We do know that multiple shots incur penalties but with 6-7 players in the group, we found that they could deal with large numbers of Stormtroopers without too much challenge when there was no restriction - of course, they (and I) have memories of PCs who had 50 odd sessions of experience - including 2 Jedi - who were all incredibly powerful before the Rebellion essentially banished them for bringing down the full weight of the Empire upon them. The one shot per turn really has dialled up the pressure and they're thriving on that, they're really keen not to even have the option of shooting multiple targets. Perhaps they'll change their tune after a while, but I'm heartened that they want they wanted the game's difficulty increased, and I think I have to run with their wishes. |
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10406 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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The Bissler wrote: | Sorry, yes, I didn't address that point. We do know that multiple shots incur penalties but with 6-7 players in the group, we found that they could deal with large numbers of Stormtroopers without too much challenge when there was no restriction - of course, they (and I) have memories of PCs who had 50 odd sessions of experience - including 2 Jedi - who were all incredibly powerful before the Rebellion essentially banished them for bringing down the full weight of the Empire upon them. The one shot per turn really has dialled up the pressure and they're thriving on that, they're really keen not to even have the option of shooting multiple targets. Perhaps they'll change their tune after a while, but I'm heartened that they want they wanted the game's difficulty increased, and I think I have to run with their wishes. |
That's fine. Whatever works for your group. And a round isn't necessarily a full 5 seconds. It is 1-5 seconds. If only shooting once works, then everyone shoots in the space of a second or 2 and you move on to the next round. _________________ *
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Ray Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003 Posts: 1743 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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My crew went by the idea that:
Light Repeating Blaster = 5-Round Burst
Medium Repeating Blaster = 4-Round Burst
Heavy Repeating Blaster = 3-Round Burst
Hit the base difficulty, the first round hits. +5 to hit the same target, or one 1-meter away from it (at Character Scale.).
Light Repeaters put a lot of shots out that created covering fire that made everyone duck for their lives.
Heavy Repeaters had a good (for higher-experienced characters) chance for hitting multiple times to a target/targets.
Medium Repeaters... We didn't really use.
E-Webs, being Heavy Repeaters, were our weapons of choice for suppressing a force. Yeah, we didn't hit as many targets, but, damned if we didn't DROP a lot more and made the others want to go home and rethink their lives. Maybe get into Deathstick dealing. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16283 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Multiple Blaster Shots And Fire Rate |
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Lot's of interesting tidbits in that Q&A. Considering some of the obscure notes that were left out of some of the sourcebooks, I'm surprised they never addressed the missing charts from the 2E GG6. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10406 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Multiple Blaster Shots And Fire Rate |
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CRMcNeill wrote: | Lot's of interesting tidbits in that Q&A. Considering some of the obscure notes that were left out of some of the sourcebooks, I'm surprised they never addressed the missing charts from the 2E GG6. |
Well it was unchanged from the 1e book and just accidentally left out of the 2e book, so at least we had the 1e book o get that. The interviewer maybe just didn't know about that omission.
I noticed there is an droid character damage/repair chart in the Q&A too. _________________ *
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