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ThrorII
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RyanDarkstar
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Joined: 04 Dec 2014
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Location: Chambersburg, PA, USA, Earth
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 Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:35 am Post subject: |
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I don't get too hung-up on differentiating troopers in my game. For me, all troopers, whether Army or Navy, have access to various armors, depending on duty/mission assignment and/or officer preference. This allows stormtroopers to be dim-witted rank-and-file types or fiercely fanatical warriors. Much of my thoughts have been influenced by the old Marvel Comics and video games like Force Commander which show stormtroopers without their helmets taking a smoke break (Marvel) or leading other troopers into battle (FC).
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Mamatried
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Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1854
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:47 am Post subject: |
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I was actually thinking in those terms my self.
To me what seprates snow troops, sand troops and mud troops would be nothing more than a survival speciality: snow/winter, desert, aquatic etc etc
and the various differnt armors.
I was an arctic ranger when serving, I had arctic survival specialization and arctic warfare gear, extra insualtion and the like.
I was however in all other aspects the exaxt same as any other rangers in the force, be them costal rangers etc.
so to me the army troops are the same , mud troopers simply having adapted gear and survival training.
I doubt fireing a blaster in mud is so differnt that it warrants a full training regime and career compared to fireing a blaster in the desert.
All troopers imo have at least one survival specialization in pips, and samegoes with all stormtroopers
So the empire needs to conduct arctic operations on some ice world, they have a full legion of troopers, but they are not snow troopers so they have to get a "new" legion???? Nah...
What they do is put on the arctic warfare armor and gear, and use the troops as normally, with the arctic survival trained troops as forward ops, recon and the like, front line seldom of ever need many specialitions in the like.
so both "snow troopers" and stormtroopers will look identical, and their roles will depend on their environmental training, with snowtroopers conducting the operations where survival is needed. |
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Grimace
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Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Montana; Big Sky Country
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Really not a bad thought having them all be the same, but with specialization skills in some and not others, and just using different armor.
Though it kinda shoots the idea of Stormtroopers being fiercely loyal compared to the Army troopers, if you just say they are all the same but with different armor.
So maybe the Stormtroopers ARE the only stormtroopers. They never change armor. But all other "specialty" troopers (Snowtroopers, Biker Scouts, Death Troopers, Desert Troopers, Sea Troopers, etc.) are all just Army troopers with different armor and with some of them having different specialties. So the Death Troopers might have better marksmanship, are more sadistic, and are so pumped up on esprit-de-corps that they have little fear in combat. Would explain why one of them could just put on Flametrooper armor and become a flamethrower unit when ordered to do so in the Mandalorian series.
So I could see this being a feasible situation. |
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TauntaunScout
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Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 981
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Dengar wears the style of mud/veers/snow breastplate and stuff too though. Just sayin'.
If I doubt, I go with Kenner & WEG. I don't think snowtroopers are mudtroopers. Though some interestingminiatures painting possibilities exist within such thought experiments. |
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1854
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Grimace wrote: | Really not a bad thought having them all be the same, but with specialization skills in some and not others, and just using different armor.
Though it kinda shoots the idea of Stormtroopers being fiercely loyal compared to the Army troopers, if you just say they are all the same but with different armor.
So maybe the Stormtroopers ARE the only stormtroopers. They never change armor. But all other "specialty" troopers (Snowtroopers, Biker Scouts, Death Troopers, Desert Troopers, Sea Troopers, etc.) are all just Army troopers with different armor and with some of them having different specialties. So the Death Troopers might have better marksmanship, are more sadistic, and are so pumped up on esprit-de-corps that they have little fear in combat. Would explain why one of them could just put on Flametrooper armor and become a flamethrower unit when ordered to do so in the Mandalorian series.
So I could see this being a feasible situation. |
I was in regards to the hoth troopers in particular thinking they are stomtroopers, with the surviival spec, and thus given the gear/armor for "specialized" operations outside the normal scope of the stormtrropers and army troopers.
To me the stormtroopers and the army is differnt arms, but similar, much like the army and the marines, to me at least the stormtroopers is an elite cops with troops specialized in enviormental operations and more, much like the army, but with the stormtroopers operation on starships, they are to me more like the marine corps, and much like the army, they have specialized and "line" units, ranging from ligistics to front line infantry |
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Dredwulf60
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Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 911
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: | I was actually thinking in those terms my self.
To me what seprates snow troops, sand troops and mud troops would be nothing more than a survival speciality: snow/winter, desert, aquatic etc etc
and the various differnt armors.
I was an arctic ranger when serving, I had arctic survival specialization and arctic warfare gear, extra insualtion and the like.
I was however in all other aspects the exaxt same as any other rangers in the force, be them costal rangers etc.
so to me the army troops are the same , mud troopers simply having adapted gear and survival training.
I doubt fireing a blaster in mud is so differnt that it warrants a full training regime and career compared to fireing a blaster in the desert.
All troopers imo have at least one survival specialization in pips, and samegoes with all stormtroopers
So the empire needs to conduct arctic operations on some ice world, they have a full legion of troopers, but they are not snow troopers so they have to get a "new" legion???? Nah...
What they do is put on the arctic warfare armor and gear, and use the troops as normally, with the arctic survival trained troops as forward ops, recon and the like, front line seldom of ever need many specialitions in the like.
so both "snow troopers" and stormtroopers will look identical, and their roles will depend on their environmental training, with snowtroopers conducting the operations where survival is needed. |
I agree with this post.
I would wager its a lot easier to transport lockers full of various gear for your legion than to logistically administer to a dozen different environmental-specialty legions.
In the Canadian army, everyone got basic arctic warfare training. When we deploy to the high arctic we got special mentoring from the Arctic Rangers, which in our case is made up primarily of a small organization of paramilitary Inuit guides.
A small group of specialists in a large organization of professionals. |
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1854
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | Mamatried wrote: | I was actually thinking in those terms my self.
To me what seprates snow troops, sand troops and mud troops would be nothing more than a survival speciality: snow/winter, desert, aquatic etc etc
and the various differnt armors.
I was an arctic ranger when serving, I had arctic survival specialization and arctic warfare gear, extra insualtion and the like.
I was however in all other aspects the exaxt same as any other rangers in the force, be them costal rangers etc.
so to me the army troops are the same , mud troopers simply having adapted gear and survival training.
I doubt fireing a blaster in mud is so differnt that it warrants a full training regime and career compared to fireing a blaster in the desert.
All troopers imo have at least one survival specialization in pips, and samegoes with all stormtroopers
So the empire needs to conduct arctic operations on some ice world, they have a full legion of troopers, but they are not snow troopers so they have to get a "new" legion???? Nah...
What they do is put on the arctic warfare armor and gear, and use the troops as normally, with the arctic survival trained troops as forward ops, recon and the like, front line seldom of ever need many specialitions in the like.
so both "snow troopers" and stormtroopers will look identical, and their roles will depend on their environmental training, with snowtroopers conducting the operations where survival is needed. |
I agree with this post.
I would wager its a lot easier to transport lockers full of various gear for your legion than to logistically administer to a dozen different environmental-specialty legions.
In the Canadian army, everyone got basic arctic warfare training. When we deploy to the high arctic we got special mentoring from the Arctic Rangers, which in our case is made up primarily of a small organization of paramilitary Inuit guides.
A small group of specialists in a large organization of professionals. |
Indeed, and to me the sole reason people put sand troopers as something else then other stormtroopers was when the game was made, easier to just make seperate stats ( gear included) than with one stat bar add modifiers. |
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TauntaunScout
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Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 981
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Like the action figure was called. Imperial Stormtrooper (Hoth Battle Gear). It took WEG to start making up the different backgrounds. Which is fine cause gemrs like lots of different stats. But still. I'd say most of them are ordinary stormtroopers. It's also worth noting that if ordinary stormtrooper armor can keep you alive in space, it can presumably operate in pretty much any Class M planet for at least a week or so. |
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:34 am Post subject: |
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A slightly different take:
All Stormtroopers were Imperial Army Troopers first. Stormtrooper training takes select Imperial Troopers, gives them special training (improved stats, with armor reducing their Dex-based skills). "Stormtrooper Armor" is better thought of as "Imperial Battle Armor"; the guys you see in non-armored uniforms are folks whose position doesn't anticipate battle.
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1854
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | A slightly different take:
All Stormtroopers were Imperial Army Troopers first. Stormtrooper training takes select Imperial Troopers, gives them special training (improved stats, with armor reducing their Dex-based skills). "Stormtrooper Armor" is better thought of as "Imperial Battle Armor"; the guys you see in non-armored uniforms are folks whose position doesn't anticipate battle. |
Ehhh.....but it is now canon that a stormtrooper can NEVER hit a target........are they then given a "dumbed down" training?
Ifwe look at stats there is little to no difference.
Both regular army troopers and stormies are less than dangerous.
I just finished new recruits and rebel guns for a table, NOT ONE stormtrooper was able to hit as much as one should suspect from an "elite" unit with superior firepower, armor and firepower, walkers and speeders vs a 4 people with a blaster each................
sorry stormtroopers are too weak, and they should ALL be stormtroopers, given a envirnment "course" that simply offer a specialty in environments and then done the right armor/gear.
I can say this, I do not think it is logical to have one complete destinc and unique military career for each armor type. |
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TauntaunScout
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Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 981
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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For the millionth time. In WEG it clearly states that sotrmtroopers are elite because of their fanaticism, not their marksmanship. There's more than one way to excel.
Grenadiers in the late 18th century were elite because of their physical size, not their marksmanship. The Spartans were elite because of their discipline in drill, not their individual hand-to-hand prowess compared to other Greeks.
It's only in this current snapshot in time that we think elite means "crack shots" and "best kickpunchers". |
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1854
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| TauntaunScout wrote: | For the millionth time. In WEG it clearly states that sotrmtroopers are elite because of their fanaticism, not their marksmanship. There's more than one way to excel.
Grenadiers in the late 18th century were elite because of their physical size, not their marksmanship. The Spartans were elite because of their discipline in drill, not their individual hand-to-hand prowess compared to other Greeks.
It's only in this current snapshot in time that we think elite means "crack shots" and "best kickpunchers". |
Elite troops are by definition troops considered SUPERIOR.
While fanatisim is in moral aspects rendering a unit slightly harder to beat becuse they actally fight on, then sure. BUT for the WEG stormies this is absolutely not the case.
Not being able to be bribed is in no way "superior" as a tropper than anyone else, after all running out into the battlefied armed with a credstick to offer troops money to stop fighting has never worked.
so they can not be bribed.....they do however surrender when faced with suicide odds, despite being so fanatic that they can't be bribed.
I never understood how much damage a bribe does, is the heavy and light bribes, maybe they do 7D damage.
My point is that the "fanaic" is in regards to not being bribed only, and sorry that alone doesn't make antyhing "elite"
Spartans were elite troops due to training, they had "better" and differnt training tradiotn than their neighbours.
The BEST COMBAT soldiers most likely (as in every culture) would have some form of destigngishing factor above other troops.
So the elite troops here were given "specialized" ot "intensified" traning.......that is what made them elite, not their view on money |
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RyanDarkstar
Commander
Joined: 04 Dec 2014
Posts: 351
Location: Chambersburg, PA, USA, Earth
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | A slightly different take:
All Stormtroopers were Imperial Army Troopers first. Stormtrooper training takes select Imperial Troopers, gives them special training (improved stats, with armor reducing their Dex-based skills). "Stormtrooper Armor" is better thought of as "Imperial Battle Armor"; the guys you see in non-armored uniforms are folks whose position doesn't anticipate battle. |
Thanks, MrNexx. Adding this to my database.
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Narmer
Ensign
Joined: 04 Feb 2020
Posts: 26
Location: Washington, the State not the City
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I kind of view Stormtroopers as the Waffen SS of Star Wars. They are an independent branch with their own command structure fanatically loyal to the Emperor. This fanaticism makes them tough in a battle and less likely to surrender. They often get first pick of equipment. These factors can lead to some rivalry and jealousy with/from the regular Imperial Army. |
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