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Maximum7
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Joined: 16 Feb 2019
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 Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:30 pm Post subject: What are the greatest mysteries in science left? |
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Last thread of this kind I promise.
What do you think are the greatest mysteries of science in the Star Wars galaxy? I think they probably know what dark matter and dark energy are since Starkiller Base is powered by it. They probably know what the full size of the universe is, how it started, how it will end and why their is more matter than anti-matter.
They obviously know the origin of consciousness and how to create it since they have “sentient” droids
That being said, what is left to wonder about? |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: What are the greatest mysteries in science left? |
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| Maximum7 wrote: | Last thread of this kind I promise.
What do you think are the greatest mysteries of science in the Star Wars galaxy? I think they probably know what dark matter and dark energy are since Starkiller Base is powered by it. They probably know what the full size of the universe is, how it started, how it will end and why their is more matter than anti-matter.
They obviously know the origin of consciousness and how to create it since they have “sentient” droids
That being said, what is left to wonder about? |
I don't really see this as any different from this thread.
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Maximum7
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| No. I decided I’m looking for science and theories not technology. All technological progress is done. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:32 am Post subject: |
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I think you're presuming quite a lot about the extent of their knowledge. They have not, for example, solved the mystery of instantaneous travel across stellar distances.
And just because a droid exhibits a personality does not mean that it is "conscious" in the sense that we understand it. It could be nothing more than an exceptionally well developed user interface; what if it's just super-Alexa with arms and legs?
"Alexa, I need you to deliver these Death Star plans to Obi-wan Kenobi on Tatooine."
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MrNexx
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Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | I think you're presuming quite a lot about the extent of their knowledge. They have not, for example, solved the mystery of instantaneous travel across stellar distances.
And just because a droid exhibits a personality does not mean that it is "conscious" in the sense that we understand it. It could be nothing more than an exceptionally well developed user interface; what if it's just super-Alexa with arms and legs?
"Alexa, I need you to deliver these Death Star plans to Obi-wan Kenobi on Tatooine." |
But, again, we get into the question of what is and is not consciousness. At what point do we decide that a creature is "conscious", and not a highly sophisticated set of impulses and heirarchies? What is the threshhold for "sophont" vs. "non-sophont"?
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:20 am Post subject: |
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The point is that the question is very much open in the SWU as to what constitutes consciousness. There are other topics where the exact nature of droid consciousness has been discussed, and a continued discussion would be more appropriate there instead of here.
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TauntaunScout
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Joined: 20 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: What are the greatest mysteries in science left? |
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| Maximum7 wrote: |
They obviously know the origin of consciousness and how to create it since they have “sentient” droids
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I strongly disagree. R2 and 3-PO are nothing more than the affection we have for our cars and other things, crossed with Wilson or whatever its name was that was that won Jeopardy. |
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Sutehp
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Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| TauntaunScout wrote: | | Maximum7 wrote: | They obviously know the origin of consciousness and how to create it since they have “sentient” droids
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I strongly disagree. R2 and 3-PO are nothing more than the affection we have for our cars and other things, crossed with Wilson or whatever its name was that was that won Jeopardy. |
| CRMcNeill wrote: | And just because a droid exhibits a personality does not mean that it is "conscious" in the sense that we understand it. It could be nothing more than an exceptionally well developed user interface; what if it's just super-Alexa with arms and legs?
"Alexa, I need you to deliver these Death Star plans to Obi-wan Kenobi on Tatooine." |
Gentlemen, I refer you to the scene in TESB when the heroes are boarding the Falcon as they're trying to escape Cloud City:
| C-3PO wrote: | | Ouch! Oh! That hurts! Bend down, you thoughtless--Ow! |
Droids can obviously feel pain, so it begs the question of why a droid programmer would enable a protocol droid to feel pain when it adds nothing to a protocol droid's function of establishing etiquette and diplomacy. It makes no sense for a protocol droid to feel something so extraneous as pain.
To put it another way, Alexa isn't going to cry out in pain if you drop your iPhone.
And don't forget that C-3PO and R2-D2 have been shown to feel both fear and anger multiple times, as well as several other emotions. But why would droid manufacturers program their droids with emotions that would make them less efficient at their supposed functions (R2-D2 as a mechanic and C-3PO as a diplomat)? That makes absolutely no sense. The only reasonable reasonable explanation is that the droids that are advanced enough to develop personalities wind up developing them on their own. It's even been stated in several places in the SWU that droids are regularly given memory wipes because if they don't get memory wipes on a regular basis, some droids become recalcitrant and refuse to work properly. If they're "alive" enough to develop personalities and feel pain, then how can they not be considered as sentient or as conscious as any biological lifeform? Doesn't any difference in consciousness just become academic at that point?
How many of you haven't seen the Star Trek TNG episode "Measure of a Man"? One has a flesh covering and the other is covered in gold-colored metal, but is there any real difference in the self-awareness of Data and C-3PO? Hell, before Data got his emotion chip, he could be considered "less" sentient since emotions so often baffled him. But C-3PO has been able to feel emotions as a matter of course ever since he was first activated. (Remember how embarrassed C-3PO was in TPM when his "parts were showing"? Don't try to tell me embarrassment isn't an emotion.) Doesn't that arguably make him more sentient than Data since the former was able to feel emotion without modification and the latter could only develop the ability to feel emotion after the hardware upgrade of the emotion chip?
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Dredwulf60
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Joined: 07 Jan 2016
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: |
Gentlemen, I refer you to the scene in TESB when the heroes are boarding the Falcon as they're trying to escape Cloud City:
| C-3PO wrote: | | Ouch! Oh! That hurts! Bend down, you thoughtless--Ow! |
Droids can obviously feel pain, so it begs the question of why a droid programmer would enable a protocol droid to feel pain when it adds nothing to a protocol droid's function of establishing etiquette and diplomacy. It makes no sense for a protocol droid to feel something so extraneous as pain.
To put it another way, Alexa isn't going to cry out in pain if you drop your iPhone.
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Well...a couple of things:
A) I am on your side in this argument. I think machines can achieve sentience and that the higher-functioning droids in Star Wars have.
B) The Alexa example isn't a good one to make your point. Alexa could easily be programmed to detect when your cell phone has been dropped and it might be considered a neat effect for it to say 'Ouch! That hurt, please be more careful!'
Pain is nothing more than information that potential damage has been suffered. It is quite possible for a sentient machine to feel no pain, or a non-sentient machine to register when it has been potentially damaged and react.
C) There is an entire thread (or two) devoted to this debate! I'm sure someone with better forum posting skills than I will be able to provide a link to it and we can keep talking about it!  |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Indeed. The point being demonstrated quite clearly here is that the nature of consciousness and sentience is most decidedly not settled science in the SWU.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10436
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | The point is that the question is very much open in the SWU as to what constitutes consciousness. There are other topics where the exact nature of droid consciousness has been discussed, and a continued discussion would be more appropriate there instead of here. |
| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | There is an entire thread (or two) devoted to this debate! I'm sure someone with better forum posting skills than I will be able to provide a link to it and we can keep talking about it! |
This is an interesting one: The Psychology of Droids. Let's please move the droid discussion there. Thanks.
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