Different Damage

[Kehlin Yew]

I said this in another thread, but it didn't go along with it too much, so i put it here.

Here's the situation, you have a Very Strong character, Say 4d+1 str
And 6D Stamina, and all that good stuff.
And then you get a computer nerd with 2D str and 3D stamina.

If you take those guys, each without any armor at all,
They still have the same amount of damage points untill their dead...

So, based on Strength, could damage points be added to characters with more strength?

Yes, there is a problem with that, then every character would want to have their strength at 4D, but there has to be a way to fix that also.

Any Suggestions?

[Boomer]

The person with higher strength resists damage better. Same wound levels, just higher difficulty to get the strong guy beat down than the weak guy.

Maybe I missed something in your post... like I usually do. But it looks balanced to me.
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[Endwyn]

Yeah, this is why I asked what you meant by damage points. For the example below, every dice will roll the average - 3.5. So here's the example for wound levels, if you mean something else let me know.

Each character is shot at by two stormtroopers. The first rolls 16 to hit, the second rolls 28. Since Dex was not provided, neither character dodges. The blasters do 4D damage. Method 2 uses bonus damage for hits (Difficulty 10 to hit). The first would be 16-10=6, 6/5=1 bonus damage; and 28-10=18, 18/5= 3 bonus damage. If you have any questions, just ask.

[Kehlin Yew]

Eh .... i dont understand that... i mean like the every character has the
0-3 Stunned
4-8 wounded
9-12 incap
13-15 mortally wounded
16+ killed

umm... why not have it change according to the str?

[Endwyn]

What the chart shows is that characters with higher strengths do take less damage because their soak roll is higher. In the chart above the buff character shrugged both off with no damage; while the nerd, when hit with the exact same shots, took a wound and a second wound. So one character isn't even stunned while the "nerd" is at a -2D penalty due to injuries. Why would you increase the benifit of a high strength further? (You do get a number of stun wound levels equal to the number before the D in STR. ie - 3D+2 = 3 stun wound levels, 4D = 4 stun wound levels.)

The information in the chart basicly showed how if the damage rolled on 4D came to 14 (average roll for 4D) then a character with a 4D STR would roll STR to soak. 4D would roll 14 (average for 4D) and take no damage since defender wins. The PC with 2D STR would try to soak the 14 pts of damage, but would only soak 7 (average roll for 2D), leaving 7 pts of damage taken; or a wound.

Another way to look at is like this. Since we're just assuming each dice rolls average, we'll just use dice. The damage formula is:

Damage - Soak = Damage taken

If a PC with a 4D STR gets hit with a blaster pistol:

4D - 4D = 0D Damage

If a PC with a 2D STR gets hit with a blaster pistol:

4D - 2D = 2D Damage

Either way you look at it the higher your STR, the more damage you soak, the more damage you soak the less injuries you recieve, which means you last longer in combat.

Does that make more sense?

[Jamfke]

I think that's a good idea, but you'd have to set a standard strength for the current table. Say 2D, and then maybe every pip over that is added to the upper end of each wound category. Say a Str of 3D would be:

0-6 Stunned
7-11 Wounded
12- 15 Incapacitated
16-18 Mortally Wounded
19+ Killed

Anything under 2D would reduce it by 1 per pip.

[Jamfke]

[Endwyn]

I'm not saying your strength should effect the damage a weapon does. I'm trying to show how your strength already makes you soak better, and by natural result take less damage / survive longer than a character with a lower strength. I only used the example in terms of dice to show how on average the characters would soak. My example shows that strength does already make characters more resistant even though they have the same wound levels.

As far as changing the table to decide how much damage causes what injury based on strength; it's a double bonus. Because it factors strength twice in the soaking equation.

I'm trying really hard to show this one simple point: Damage is calculated by rolling damage, rolling a soak, and then taking the difference and referencing the wound level chart. Since soak is a STR roll, then the characters with a higher strength will end up soaking more of the damage and taking less damage - which means the wounds they suffer will be lower.

I know that I am only dealing with statistical standards, but I can't predict the rolls other might get....just what should statisticly occur as the "average roll". Using standards you can see how "all things held equal" one change effects the two dependant variables.

As far as your chart, take a Wookie with STR 6D this is what your chart would look like:

0-15 Stunned
16-20 Wounded
21-24 Incapacitated
25-27 Mortally Wounded
28+ Killed

Now to wound that wookie, by your chart, you would probably need a weapon that does about 11D-12D character scale. For a wound! Why, because once you roll the 11D-12D of damage, subtract the soak roll (whatever the character got on 6D - statistical average of 21) you would still need 16+ points of left over, non-soaked damage, to AT LEAST wound him. What does that mean in game? It means a thermal detinator is likely to only stun the wookie. One of the most feared personal weapons only stuns him?

Do you understand what I'm trying to show you guys now?

[Argamoth]

I beleive the number of stun results a PC can take before passing out depends on the D code of Strength (5D+1=5 stuns, 2D+2=2stuns)

You could also apply the same idea to wounds somehow.

[Endwyn]

[Jamfke]

Sorry, didn't mean to offend.

Didn't think of it that far! Oh well, maybe adjust it a point per die code over standard, and make standard 3D then? That way the Wookie with 6D Str could still be wounded by scoring 7 or more on the Damage roll.

I like Argamoth's idea too.

[Argamoth]

Whoops. Sorry. I tend to scan long topics quicky...

I see no problem with the way damage works in RE 2ndEd.

Strength helps a PC resist damage. It won't help you take on more *damage*, but it will let you take more punishment and fight longer.

Buff PCs also have an easier time recovering and may even recover faster.

And I don't know if someone has already said it, but you could use a stamina roll to negate the need to rest after being stunned.

[Endwyn]

Don't get me wrong, I could care less if you guys want to house rule so that it is harder to get hurt. Or even if you just want STR to have more effect on soaking. It's just that Kehlin Yew said that a person with a 2D and 4D STR "have the same amount of damage points untill their dead". But they don't. While they might have the same number of wound levels the person with the higher STR soaks better, and as a result is less likely to get injured.

Now, if you want to change it still, that's all cool. I'm just trying to explain to Kehlin Yew how and why there is a difference, that STR does make that difference, and that those two characters don't take the same amount of damage before dying. (They probably won't even suffer the same wound penalties. The stronger is likely to be able to get shot many times before dying while the weak one is likely to get wounded on the first shot and quickly digress thereafter.)

I'm not offended, and Idon't intend to offend anyone else. If it's an issue of understanding what I'm saying but just wanting to change it - then fine. But from what I can tell, Kehlin Yew still doesn't get what I'm saying. I hope one of the new ways Iexplained it was a better way of putting it.

[garhkal]

I agree. Ther has been one gm i played with that allowed 1 additional 'wound' before reaching incap for each full die over 2 you had (not inc armor) for soaking. BUT that made people wish to play nothing but barbels, trandoshans etc. It really bogged down combat, as no one was going down/getting injured , and when they did, they were just taking wound after wound after wound....
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[Argamoth]

I might use that rule, but the PC must spend CPs to earn those extra wounds. It would be a nice addition for 'epic' level games.