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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:25 pm Post subject: Attributes & Skills |
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I'd like to suggest a more real world version of improving attributes and skills.
According to the rules, a character begins with attribute dice as assigned by the template, then adds beginning skill dice to them. To increase skills after character creation, one must spend character points equal to the total dice number of the skill to increase the skill by one pip (Example. A Bounty Hunter with a Dex of 4D and a Blaster of 5D must spend 5 CPs to increase his Blaster skill to 5D+1).
I'm sure you're all aware of how this works, and I appreciate your patience while I played Captain Obvious.
My problem with this rule is that, in real life, a person with higher natural aptitude tends to learn faster than a person who is not so naturally inclined. In real life, I am relatively smart, and tend to find learning new things relatively easy. Conversely, someone who is athletically inclined will tend to pick up physical activities much more quickly than a fatbeard like me.
I think the rules for Skills and Attributes should be changed to reflect this real life truth. The change would be relatively simple: when spending CPs to increase a skill, the CP price should be equal to the number before the skill, not the attribute.
In the above example of the Bounty Hunter, his attribute and skill listing would look something like this:
Dexterity - 4D
Blaster - +1D (5D)
To increase his Blaster skill level, he would only have to spend 1 CP, instead of 5. However, a character with a lower Dex, for example:
Dexterity - 3D
Blaster - +2D (5D)
This character would need to spend 2 CPs for every pip.
IMO, this rule change would represent a more realistic scenario, that those who have natural aptitude for a specific ability or attribute tend to learn faster when dealing with skills related to that attribute.
Thoughts?
Last edited by CRMcNeill on Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Azai
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Posts: 248
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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I like the thought process of this. The idea is something I might to try out myself.
The only thing I can think of, that would be a problem, is that it will leave a lot of Cps left to spend.
Either making jack of all trades characters, or making skills getting to very high levels very easily. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Azai wrote: | I like the thought process of this. The idea is something I might to try out myself.
The only thing I can think of, that would be a problem, is that it will leave a lot of Cps left to spend.
Either making jack of all trades characters, or making skills getting to very high levels very easily. |
This will definitely happen at first, however, skills will still plateau and become more and more costly to improve. It will just happen at a higher dice level.
As for high skill levels, it would certainly make some of the insanely powerful Star Wars NPCs a little easier to understand. And I'm sure that nobody will complain about being allowed to spike their character's skill levels a little higher early on. |
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
This will definitely happen at first, however, skills will still plateau and become more and more costly to improve. It will just happen at a higher dice level.
As for high skill levels, it would certainly make some of the insanely powerful Star Wars NPCs a little easier to understand. And I'm sure that nobody will complain about being allowed to spike their character's skill levels a little higher early on.
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With the possible exception of game masters who are trying to have a baseline game with people in it who may in fact still be afraid of your average squad of storm troopers. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | With the possible exception of game masters who are trying to have a baseline game with people in it who may in fact still be afraid of your average squad of storm troopers. |
I've always felt that stormtroopers were a bit wimpy anyways. Didn't someone come up out with upgraded stormtrooper stats, so that they weren't quite the pushovers they always seemed to be? I always thought it odd that such combat oriented beings had a straight 2D stat line. Imperial Army regulars have a Dex of 3D and a Str of 3D+1, which puts them ahead of the supposedly elite stormtroopers in two of a soldier's most important attributes. But then, WEG's stats and rules never entirely match reality. |
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Rerun941
Commander
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 459
Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I've always felt that stormtroopers were a bit wimpy anyways. Didn't someone come up out with upgraded stormtrooper stats, so that they weren't quite the pushovers they always seemed to be? I always thought it odd that such combat oriented beings had a straight 2D stat line. Imperial Army regulars have a Dex of 3D and a Str of 3D+1, which puts them ahead of the supposedly elite stormtroopers in two of a soldier's most important attributes. But then, WEG's stats and rules never entirely match reality. |
A lot of GMs forget that the Stormtrooper's biggest strength is in numbers. Sure, the 3D stats are wimpy... but not when you combine fire using a squad or two (6-12 troopers). Things can really get nasty for the PCs when that happens.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Rerun941 wrote: | | A lot of GMs forget that the Stormtrooper's biggest strength is in numbers. Sure, the 3D stats are wimpy... but not when you combine fire using a squad or two (6-12 troopers). Things can really get nasty for the PCs when that happens. |
It's actually a 2D stat for all attributes on regular stormtroopers.
While it's true that there are a lot of them, there are also quite a lot of Imperial Army regulars. With the stormtroopers' background in the prequels (clones of one of the top Mandalorian commandos), they really should have something above and beyond the basic human minimum attributes. Even if the Empire is diversifying the sample sources for their clone genetic material, they wouldn't just be picking the average Joe off the street; they would be selecting people with known natural aptitude for the skills they want to reproduce, just like Thrawn did in Dark Force Rising.
If anything, Army troopers should be the ones with the basic 2D stat line. After all, these are real people who had some experience with real life before they joined up with the Imperial Army. The stormtroopers, on the other hand, would be more far combat oriented, but much less worldly wise. After all, as clones, they don't really have personal lives; combat is all they know. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14166
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| Rerun941 wrote: |
A lot of GMs forget that the Stormtrooper's biggest strength is in numbers. Sure, the 3D stats are wimpy... but not when you combine fire using a squad or two (6-12 troopers). Things can really get nasty for the PCs when that happens. |
Sure of that. 12 people would be +4d.. So that group now has a whapping 7d to hit you (4d blaster after armor, -1d for their dodge)...
| Quote: | | Didn't someone come up out with upgraded stormtrooper stats |
I have done some in the past..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be interested in seeing that.
Also, I remembered another aspect that I was considering for my original post (before we got sidetracked by the old wimpy stormtrooper argument).
On top of the new skill idea, I am also considering the concept of a "Natural" skill. Some people in this world have near superhuman skill in specific areas of learning. We call them prodigies or savants. I'm considering a similar rule for SW character creation, in that a character could select a specific skill (not attribute) at which he is exceptionally skilled. In game terms, the character could increase the attribute at half the normal CP cost (rounded up). Such an advantage would have to be accompanied by a balancing disadvantage of some sort, so I would probably include it with WEG's D6 advantage/disadvantage system. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14166
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:11 am Post subject: |
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Standard Stormtrooper..
Imperial Stormtrooper Patrol
Consists of 5 Storm Troopers (1 is a leader (all skills +1d))
Stats: All attributes at 2d.
DEX skills of Blaster, Brawl Parry and Dodge at 4d:
PER skill of Command 3d
STR skills of Brawling at 3d
Character points. 3 Force points. 0
DSP. 2. Move. 10.
That is imo for one fresh out of the academy.
A regular one would be as above, but increase blaster to 5d+1, dodge to 5d+1 and add grenade at 3d+1
CP to 5, FP to 1
A Experienced ones.. say after 2 yrs as above, but increase blaster to 6d+2, dodge to 6d+2 and add grenade at 4d+2. CP to 8, FP to 2
Veterans but increase blaster to 8d, dodge to 8d, and add grenade at 6d.
CP to 12, FP still 2
Elites..
Dexterity 3d+1. Blaster 9d+2, brawl parry 7d, dodge 9d, grenade 4d (S) stun grenades 8d, running 4d+2
Knowledge 2d. Alien species 4d, languages 4d, law enforcement 4d, willpower 5d
Mechanical 2d. Communications 4d
Perception 3d. Command 4d (s) imperial troops 5d), search 5d
Strength 3d+2. Brawl 7d, stamina 5d
Technical 2d+1. Computer programming/repair 4d, first aid 5d+1
CP/FP Variable on how much the party has earned. Starting at 14/1 with +2/1 per 150cp earned by the pcs (averaged out)
Vaders fist level..
Vader’s 501st Storm Troopers
DEX: 3d+1.
Blaster 9d+2, Brawl Parry 7d, Dodge 10d, Grenade 5d+2, Melee 6d, Melee Parry 6d+1, Running 5d
KNO: 2d+2.
Alien Species 4d, Bureaucracy 5d, Intimidation 5d, Law Enforcement 5d, Streetwise 5d, Survival 6d, Tactics 5d, Willpower 7d
MECH: 3d.
Beast riding 5d, Communications 6d, Repulsorlift Operations 7d, Sensors 6d,
PER: 3d+1.
Investigations 5d+2, Search 6d, Sneak 5d, Command 5d
STR: 3d+2.
Brawl 7d+1, Climb/Jump 5d, Lift 4d+2, Swimming 5d, Stamina 6d
TECH: 2d+2.
Computer Programming/Repair 4d, First Aid 4d, Repulsorlift Repair 4d
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Are the strooper clones in your universe?
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4849
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Azai wrote: |
Either making jack of all trades characters, or making skills getting to very high levels very easily. |
I think this is exactly my issue with the idea. I've talked to waaay too many GMs who swore off the D6 system simply because the characters got way too powerful too fast and the game got out of hand with ridiculously overpowered characters. The D6 system already has the liability of being a game that requires a more hands-on GM. You have to watch your players' development, and present them challengers that encourage them to diversify their skill sets. Once you give them the ability to get high powered skills as well as have diversity, then I think it's going to break the system.
I think this would be a great idea for a very short-term game. If you decided that you want to play for two to three months with a small number of adventures to work you through an epic level campaign, then this is great. Barring that, I don't think I'd pick this up.
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Grimace
Captain
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Montana; Big Sky Country
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Actually, the system works fine. You just have to be a decent GM who doesn't rely on the game system to do all the work for them.
I run my D6 like that for several years now. I ran a 2 and a half year campaign with the same PCs in them, playing every week. The characters weren't ridiculous in power level and weren't jack-of-all-trades. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Raven Redstar wrote: | | With the possible exception of game masters who are trying to have a baseline game with people in it who may in fact still be afraid of your average squad of storm troopers. |
I've always felt that stormtroopers were a bit wimpy anyways. Didn't someone come up out with upgraded stormtrooper stats, so that they weren't quite the pushovers they always seemed to be? I always thought it odd that such combat oriented beings had a straight 2D stat line. Imperial Army regulars have a Dex of 3D and a Str of 3D+1, which puts them ahead of the supposedly elite stormtroopers in two of a soldier's most important attributes. But then, WEG's stats and rules never entirely match reality. |
I started with removing the -1D Dex penalty for the armour. I have rule for training in, and customizing armour that will let you remove 1D of penalty for CPs and custmization costs. I assume that ST are so used to their armour that they suffer no penalty. I also have ST at 3D Dex, Per and Str. This is also a general rule where I have raised the number of attribute dice that average joe has to 15D.
Regarding your rule above, I quite like the way the current system lets characters with low skill dice raise their skills to a moderate level for reasonable CPs. However, if I would use the rule I would double the cost for raising skills. If you have +1D in the skill it costs 2 CPs to raise to +1D+1.
This means that for character with low attributes it will be more expensive than the RAW to reach high skill values (at 2D +3D skill it costs 6 CPs for a total skill level of 5D+1, compared to 5 in the RAW). For characters with high attributes it will be cheaper than the RAW to get high skills (at 4D +3D skill it costs 6 CPs for a total skill level of 7D, compared to 7 CPs in the RAW). But this seems to be in concensus with your general idea.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | | Are the strooper clones in your universe? |
Not all...
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