The expectations game

[Solo4114]

I was thinking about this the other day after yet another discussion of TLJ with some folks online. Basically, just wondering how much "expectations" play into one's enjoyment of a bit of entertainment (e.g., film, TV show, book, etc.).

One of the things that really irritated me about the Star Wars prequels was the dismissal that "You just didn't like it because it didn't meet your expectations." Not because that was entirely wrong (the movie very much did not meet my expectations), but because it also (in my view at the time) obscured a lot of what I thought were legitimate criticisms of the films (especially TPM).

With a lot of time and distance, I've gotten to a point where I can see the intent behind the prequels, the general story Lucas was (I think) trying to tell, but I still find his execution weak in the first two outings, and I find that there's a lot of other stuff that I just don't like on a subjective basis. Like, Jar-Jar is not an objectively bad character; thre's nothing wrong with including "The Fool" as a character in your story. The problem is the type of fool that Jar-Jar is really, really, really grates on me. That's a subjective thing, though; it's not something that is somehow intrinsically problematic for the story structure or the intended goal of the story. If you thought Jar-Jar was entertaining, for example, then the story would still work in terms of accomplishing its ultimate goals. (Whereas an objectively bad character, however enjoyable, would frustrate that goal.)

I will, however, say that based on my experience watching the TPM trailer, I decided to never, ever watch another Star Wars trailer before seeing a film. Ever. I've stuck with that to this day, and it has, I think, improved my enjoyment of the films, albeit only marginally. What it does for me is give me a relatively clean slate so that I'm judging the film based only on news of casting (which I allow myself to read) and whatever unavoidable imagery creeps into my daily life (e.g., walking down the street and I see a newsstand with the latest Entertainment Weekly featuring XYZ character).

Even so, I still tend to form some kind of expectations about a film, in the sense of "What might they do in this one?" or "What could it be about?"


So, with all that in mind, we come to TLJ. In the years beween TFA and TLJ, I did plenty of speculating about what they might do with things following up on TFA. What would Luke's role be? What other stuff would be explained that was left confusing in TFA (e.g. who the hell is Snoke? What's the deal with Rey's parents?). My big concern, though, was that the same way that TFA felt like it was a too-busy rehash of many of the beats of ANH (albeit still enjoyable on the whole), the next film wouldn't do enough to broaden what Star Wars can be. Instead, it'd just be a reiteration of ESB. Battle on a snow planet, young Jedi is taught by the wise master, duel with bad guy, etc. And that would've been kind of a disappointment to me, even if it had been done really well.

I think that is, in part, why I've come to so enjoy TLJ. I was expecting to be a little let down by a "Haven't we seen this all before?" rehash of major parts of ESB. For anyone who watches the various Gundam franchise shows, you often see this where new characters occupy positions that older characters did, go through similar arcs, and face similar opponents. There's some variation here and there, but even then, you see a lot of overlap. I wanted something that would shake things up instead, and allow the stories told in the Star Wars universe to expand well beyond "Plucky band of freedom fighters takes on tyrannical government and wins with the help of lightsabre-wielding ascetic warrior-monks." That gets especially annoying when you have a "fishbowl universe," too, where characters are closely related, and where you make a lot of on-the-nose callbacks to such-and-such character from other films.

TLJ, I think, blew a lot of that apart or at least offered the opportunity to blow a lot of that apart and really take the franchise in different directions. Heck, I'd even be happy to see the series move away from "trilogies" and focus more on episodes that lead into each other, telling various story arcs, but not necessarily focused on three-movie arcs.

So, when TLJ did a lot of that (in my opinion) my enjoyment of it went up even more. Again, because the film exceeded my expectations, I was able to enjoy it more than if it had fallen below my expectations or even simply met them.

Similarly, my expectations for Ep. IX are that JJ will lack the storytelling chops to let TLJ really stand, and will instead try to create an ersatz ROTJ that wraps everything up in a single film and ties a neat little bow on it, which I think would feel deeply incongruous. I suppose if he does better than that, I'll be happier. Guess we'll see...

[CRMcNeill]

A lot here I agree with. While there is a lot to dislike about the prequels, I always liked that Lucas was willing to take the chance on telling a different kind of story within the same universe. I was disappointed as to how poorly realized it was.

The sequels, however, seem to be doing a lot of thrashing about trying to decide which path they're going to take. TFA, on the one hand, was a blatant copy of as many sequel themes as they could cram into a feature length movie. On the other hand, TLJ seemed to try as hard as it could to go the opposite direction, rejecting as many of the fans' expectations of Star Wars as possible.

However poorly the story was told, the prequels stuck to the same story across three movies. I am not convinced of the sequels doing the same. Things may play out differently once we see Episode IX, but JJ Abrams has a lot of patchwork to do. In retrospect, Rian Johnson would've been a better choice for one of the single film side projects, like Rogue One, with the story arc of the sequels staying under the hand of a single director.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Solo4114]

[Desert Kris]

I was susceptible to expectations of what I thought the prequels were, and struggled with what the prequels turned out to be. I respect their imaginative production design, and GL's efforts to keep them fresh while still giving enough call backs to make clear they are in the same universe.

I was lucky with TLJ in that after a certain point of my own speculation and looking at other fan theories, I got tired of trying too hard to know what the movie was going to be. I got tired of Mike Zeroh's video's, too (sorry if anyone likes the content he puts out). Mike Zeroh's videos made me reflect on what I was looking for, and let go of my desire to know, or to get clues, or speculate endlessly. I thought to myself, "There are books and comics that I can read that I haven't gone through yet, and I won't have to wait a year or more to know those stories." So I stopped watching those videos, and enjoyed SW in other media (old EU and new EU), and caught up on other things that I like.

Having not invested time figuring out my theories for TLJ, I came to it with genuine curiosity. I ended up enjoying it to a certain extent, because I didn't have theories that were proved wrong. I had to look at videos of fans who hated it to understand some of the surface level objections. I kind of value the controversial nature of the film, up to a point. I wish it had eschewed some of the structural similarities with TESB more than it did.

I think that's all I've got for now. I was fine with TLJ because I wasn't as invested with expectations, and theories, and so forth. It wouldn't matter, because even if I had, I would eventually settled into a philosophical perspective about it, as I eventually did with the prequels. I can live with the disappointments, but I tend not to become livid with hatred about what doesn't work for me personally. I'll go and write out my own version, for my own satisfaction, and take it all in stride.

[Solo4114]

[Whill]

Expectation is a huge factor in fan experience.

Going into the prequels, we knew Obi-Wan, Vader, Palpatine, Yoda and the droids would not die. Other than those basic continuity realities of prequels, we really only knew some things that would happen in Episode III. We knew the Jedi Order would fall and Empire would begin. We knew Anakin would turn to Dark Side and become Vader. We knew Obi-Wan would defeat Vader on a lava planet. We knew Luke and Leia would be born, and where the twins would go.

Yes, Lucas plotted out the prequels around Anakin's fall to the Dark Side. The premise is based on Buddhist teachings about attachments and something very near and dear to Lucas, adoption. He researched separation anxiety and determined that a child of about age 9 would be the most traumatized by separation from his parent. Younger than that, they could form new attachments and be ok, and older than that they would be better equipped to deal with it. On average age 9 was the worst. From what I have studied, that could be true.

So the first episode was leaving his mother. The second was having nightmares about his mother leading up to their reunion only for her to die in his arms, and falling in love. The third was having nightmares about his love and in his quest to prevent her death, join the Dark Side and cause her death in a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is one of those things where you either buy it, or you don't.

I wasn't overly fascinated by this arc, but I can't say that I was uninterested in it. I think it is a well-plotted premise. The main problem is in the execution of it. I had no issue with Jake Loyd Anakin. I can't say that I have ever expected more from a child actor his age. But the adult Anakin-Padme love story was unconvincing, and Hayden Christiansen's performance of the crossing-over to the Dark Side leaves a lot to be desired. These things are probably due to Lucas's insufficient human direction more than actor ability.

So there were a few things that didn't live up to my expectations, but overall the prequel trilogy did. Overall the anthology prequels did too. I feel fortunate I was spared from experiencing the severe disconnect between expectation and result for the five prequels. But they are a different beast than sequels.

For TFA, a big problem for a lot of people was expecting more originality instead of reprise of ANH (in the spirit of the two Indiana Jones sequels being reprises of Raiders of the Lost Arc). I admit I did too, but enjoyed the result nonetheless.

For TLJ, I think a huge problem for a lot of people was in the expectations for Luke. I really think fans were largely hoping for Luke to just be more of a direct a continuation of RotJ but this time also the teacher. So many fans vehemently rejected Luke being a cynical failed master who only returns to heroic form at the end of the film. And a lot of fans were not expecting Luke to die.

For TLJ, I publicly called it that Luke would die on the day the title of the film was announced, so I obviously expected him to die. (Before that I expected him to die in Episode IX.) And unlike a lot of fans, I am not really bothered by Luke being a different character 30 years later.

There were unexpected things about TLJ I liked and some I didn't like. However I did expect similarities to other films that didn't happen in TLJ. I expected a film with Jedi in the title to have a lightsaber duel somewhere in the film (lightsaber vs. lightsaber).
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[Solo4114]

[Whill]