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windshare
Cadet
Joined: 26 Mar 2022
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 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:50 pm Post subject: Jedi Ace pilot Force powers ? |
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Hello !
I wanted to know if anyone had ever tried to create a lightsaber combat type power but for a pilot? Like the Jedi Ace special abilities in d20 system ? |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Jedi Ace pilot Force powers ? |
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| windshare wrote: | Hello !
I wanted to know if anyone had ever tried to create a lightsaber combat type power but for a pilot? Like the Jedi Ace special abilities in d20 system ? |
I'm not sure. Could you describe the d20 special abilities? What kinds of things do they do for the character?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16343
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Jedi Ace pilot Force powers ? |
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| windshare wrote: | Hello !
I wanted to know if anyone had ever tried to create a lightsaber combat type power but for a pilot? Like the Jedi Ace special abilities in d20 system ? |
I've played around with folding Lightsaber Combat into Combat Sense, so that one power covers all combat enhancement, but the bonus are 1/2-1/3 (I haven't decided which version I prefer) what you'd get from just Lightsaber Combat. That requires the character to lean somewhat more heavily on their regular skill dice, and also helps cut back on incidents of bucket-o'-dice during lightsaber fights.
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Forceally
Commodore
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 1063
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| I consider them to be applications of concentration and maybe enhance attribute. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| Forceally wrote: | | I consider them to be applications of concentration and maybe enhance attribute. |
Prob with making it just an application of concentration, is that when concentrating one can do only one action. SINC maneuvering the ship is one action, the jedi pilot in a fighter, couldn't then be dodging or firing. If he's firing, he's not maneuvering or dodging..
BUT i could see enhance attribute on Mech...
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:05 am Post subject: |
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We have instinctive astrongation ( both control and sense version)
we have other abilities very much related to "travel" and to space, we can maybe use some verion of precognition like with the chiss skywalkers, allowing the jedi ace to have some "ace pilot abilities", and maybe he can do some manipulation of techincal and mechanical components, like aid in ship repairs, enhance his weapons and shileds and other systems, maybe by an extention of both sense like combat sense and abilities that we can make variants of , like suggested above enhance attirbute, but on the ship, making it two diffents powers.
We have similar skills being given a differnt use when see to jenseraai and thei armors, in stead of the rules for constucting an imbuing a lightsaber they do it with the armor.
I am working on a list of powers, and their if needed variants/atenative uses for the jedi Ace ( a favorite template of mine that is) |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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The problem with Enhance Attribute to Mech is that any meaningful bonus will be completely overcome by MAPs. The highest bonus you can get is +3D, but then you get Starship Piloting for free, then -1D for Starship Gunnery and -1D for keeping up Control, assuming you aren't bothering with shields. That means, at most, a +1D bonus. On top of that, getting the +3D bonus requires you to beat Moderate Difficulty by at least 26 points.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | The problem with Enhance Attribute to Mech is that any meaningful bonus will be completely overcome by MAPs. |
Enhance Attribute is not "Kept up" but instead is rolled once and afterwards provides a bonus for a set number of rounds and can be kept in effect additional rounds at the cost of 1 CP per extra round, but it is not "kept up" so there is no MAP for keeping the force power up. The other MAPS you mentioned would apply, but they apply to any starfighter pilot, so a max +3D bonus still helps significantly. I confirmed this to be the case with the power description in Dark Force Rising. Unless it was later changed in another source, this is how it should be.
Last edited by Dr. Bidlo on Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Rats.. Someone beat me to the correction..
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Darklighter79
Captain
Joined: 27 May 2018
Posts: 529
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Jedi Ace pilot Force powers ? |
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| Whill wrote: | | windshare wrote: | Hello !
I wanted to know if anyone had ever tried to create a lightsaber combat type power but for a pilot? Like the Jedi Ace special abilities in d20 system ? |
I'm not sure. Could you describe the d20 special abilities? What kinds of things do they do for the character? |
Taking aside all non-Force bonuses, for Jedi Ace we have:
1) Starship focus - Jedi uses sense Force to aid piloting. This is a bonus to piloting roll. Bonus is based on the current Jedi level.
2) Trust the Force - allows one failed attack to be re-rolled (once per day).
Basically there's all what you need in SWd6. So:
1) You add Sense to piloting skill. But this could be OP (just like mentioned below Lighstaber Combat)
2) You use Sense instead of piloting skill. But in this case you probably would need to scale it differently - much like Alter Telekinesis has a different difficulties when compared to Lifting skill.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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I could see a LS combat LITE power, that applies to Starfighter combat, but once activated, it adds +1, PER die of Control OR SENSE, which ever is higher, to your piloting AND gunnery..
Say something like this.
Starfighter coordination.
Control+sense power
Control roll; Moderate, if activated BEFORE going into combat. Difficult if activating WHILE in combat.
Sense roll; Moderate, if activated BEFORE going into combat. Difficult if activating WHILE in combat.
This force power, acts somewhat similarly to LS combat, in once activated, it adds a certain amount to a Jedi's Starfighter piloting, and gunnery skill. BUT its more akin to Combat Sense, in when activated, it lasts 10 rounds period. No Maps apply.
The jedi activating it, can add in +1 pip, to his Star Fighter piloting, PER full Die of his Sense, while he adds +1 pip to his Star ship gunnery, per full Die of his Control he has.
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1861
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | I could see a LS combat LITE power, that applies to Starfighter combat, but once activated, it adds +1, PER die of Control OR SENSE, which ever is higher, to your piloting AND gunnery..
Say something like this.
Starfighter coordination.
Control+sense power
Control roll; Moderate, if activated BEFORE going into combat. Difficult if activating WHILE in combat.
Sense roll; Moderate, if activated BEFORE going into combat. Difficult if activating WHILE in combat.
This force power, acts somewhat similarly to LS combat, in once activated, it adds a certain amount to a Jedi's Starfighter piloting, and gunnery skill. BUT its more akin to Combat Sense, in when activated, it lasts 10 rounds period. No Maps apply.
The jedi activating it, can add in +1 pip, to his Star Fighter piloting, PER full Die of his Sense, while he adds +1 pip to his Star ship gunnery, per full Die of his Control he has. |
I like this, maybe make a prerqisite for the power that you must know starship focus first.
then you can learn starship coordination, and split the bonus between weapons and shield equally given despite bing fighter pilots, the jedi are not supposed to be focusing on combat over all else, and as such sharing the bonus there to boost the shileds a little and the weapons a little with the added moost to piloting from the focus I think is more a fit to the jedi.
I can see maybe choosing the split between shilds and weapons, with a darker minded jedi/force user maybe applying the entire bonus to his weapons. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16343
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | Enhance Attribute is not "Kept up" but instead is rolled once and afterwards provides a bonus for a set number of rounds and can be kept in effect additional rounds at the cost of 1 CP per extra round, but it is not "kept up" so there is no MAP for keeping the force power up. The other MAPS you mentioned would apply, but they apply to any starfighter pilot, so a max +3D bonus still helps significantly. |
But to get the +3D Bonus, you're still having to either roll once per round or burn CP to keep it up. This doesn't fit the flavor of how the Jedi use the Force in combat, allowing it to guide their actions / obey their commands. A Control-only power would just enhance the character's normal, physical senses (improved eyesight, hand-eye coordination, situational awareness, data processing, etc). It may provide a bonus, but not in the way it should.
Allowing Enhance Attribute to substitute for a more general, Sense-based combat power is a sop to the overall problem of poorly written rules that only allow a Jedi's connection to the Force to come into play in combat if they're holding a lightsaber.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: |
I like this, maybe make a prerqisite for the power that you must know starship focus first.
then you can learn starship coordination, and split the bonus between weapons and shield equally given despite bing fighter pilots, the jedi are not supposed to be focusing on combat over all else, and as such sharing the bonus there to boost the shileds a little and the weapons a little with the added moost to piloting from the focus I think is more a fit to the jedi.
I can see maybe choosing the split between shilds and weapons, with a darker minded jedi/force user maybe applying the entire bonus to his weapons. |
What is starship focus, and starship coordination???
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Allowing Enhance Attribute to substitute for a more general, Sense-based combat power is a sop to the overall problem of poorly written rules that only allow a Jedi's connection to the Force to come into play in combat if they're holding a lightsaber. |
I concur. I have played and GMed a lot of jedi over the years and the rules for the Force are so messy, I would rather just avoid it entirely these days rather than try to completely overhaul a broken system. But that is just me. |
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