To dodge, or not to dodge?

[garhkal]

In other words, do you use the surprise rules from the main book, where if someone successfully sneaks up to a target, they get no dodge/parry against his attacks?


If you do use surprise, how many actions does the enemy get? 1? 1 full round??
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[Kehlin Yew]

we do the surprise rule, if they sneak up, they get one free attack.

[KageRyu]

A surprised character usually has no idea an attack is coming (if from behind) or very little time to respond (if from the front). Therefore they should receive no dodge, or suffer from stiff penalties to doge (only being able to dodge a surprise attack from the front). It is basically the GM's ruling whether the character has enough time to make a reactionary move, and if so, at what cost.

A character with the element of surprise has a split second, enough time for 1 action only, as an entire round is 5 seconds, and 5 seconds is a long time when you think about it. Most people realize they are attacked when the shooting starts.

**edit**I might possibly allow two actions if one of them is movement.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[garhkal]

OK kage. Let's say an imperial baddie was being hunted by the players. They enter his lair, which is nice and dark (some lights but not enough to give proper lighting, so all get a +2d bonus to sneak -2D to search. He stalks them, and surprises one. Takes a shot, and for a called second action is to go back into 'sneak mode'. Would that be acceptable?
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[KageRyu]

I would say no. Before he has a chance to hide again, initiative would need be determined, and players would get a chance to spot him (opposed rolls).
I meant the movement as in running and firing at same time. Or, pupping up from behind a crate and squeezing off a round. Actions and movement that air within a hair's breath of each other.

Now, in your example, it is possible the players fail to spot the enemy, or if he has initiative he dashes behind cover before their reaction, but they would still have that split second where they had the chance to see him.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[netjedi]

In my games I use rules just like KageRyu. I allow for one free attack, if the surprising character is not attackig but doing other things that will not compromise his position then he will still retain the element of surprise. For example if the stalking party decided to make a called shot on the target he would get the one free shot. but lets say instead of shooting he decided he wanted to lay a mine in a shadowy hallway prior to the target getting there then he would still be able to get additional free actions until he decided to attack.

As for your second question as a general rule I would not allow something like this unless maybe the stalker decided on a stealthy form of attack. example if the stalker decided to shoot one of his targets 1 of 4 imperial army officers no stealth afterwards. But if the stalker decided to come from behind and slice the rear officers throat open with a knife and take the body back into the shadows, i would roll a perception check for the others and if they all fail then he could continue on his surprise attacks.
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"Dig it. Who's the man? I'm the man. I'm a bad man. How bad? Real bad. I'm a 12.0 on the 10.0 scale of badness." The Evil Midnight Bomber

Wanted Poster

[garhkal]

Would there be any difference to that, if he was using a stealthy method of attacking, such as a silenced firearm, or magnacaster? What about a bola? Or the rebel spec force maneuver silent strike?
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[netjedi]

silenced firearm, silent strike, bow, bola or magna caster I would allow as long as he chose the rear target and the rest of the targets did not roll high enough on their perception to notice anything. Blasters as everyone knows shoot a beam of light and I would not allow for that attack to be stealthy in the dark since it generates light.
_________________
"Dig it. Who's the man? I'm the man. I'm a bad man. How bad? Real bad. I'm a 12.0 on the 10.0 scale of badness." The Evil Midnight Bomber

Wanted Poster

[Hellcat]

If it were real life and someone came up behind you without you knowing it, then you'd have no way of avoiding the attack. If there were other's with you and they heard a gun shot or you scream, then they would be alerted to the danger and so the attacker would not be as likely to pull off another sneak attack immediately. If the attack was silent, then the attacker could get away with another attack sooner.
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Wanted Poster

[KageRyu]

Even with silenced attacks, I would say the others must roll initiative, but can not attack until they see a target. Let me explain a little:
• Seeing a body drop, or hearing a muffled noise might alert you to the attacker. So, being on heightened alert, we roll initiative to determine attack order, and everyone declares how many actions to take.
• The characters being victimized MUST use their first action on Perception or notice to see the stealthy assasin, or to look around, etc. The attacker can easily use his first action to get behind cover, renew his stealth, and remain hidden (and if he has initiative he will succeed without the others knowing he's there). He could just as easily make another attack, and unless spotted or detected, is still attacking in surprise as long as he stays out of vision, succeeds at stealth (don't forget MAP), and uses a relatively quiet attack mode.
• Once the attacker is spotted, then he may be counterattacked, until and unless he seeks cover and renews his hide and seek with the characters.

Even in this fashion, a character with good hide/sneak, and the proper environment, can make short work of a PC group. Keep in mind, if the Stealthy attacker fails to incapacitate or mortally wound one of his targets, his target knows he's being attacked, and, unless a ranged hit, exactly where the attacker is.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[garhkal]

[netjedi]

In general I try to have the PC's enemys want them alive. Several reasons for this action are for the Enemy:
1. to gloat over them
2. to boast about his exploits with his peers

on a different note:
1. try not to automatically kill the PC's (killing the PC's is actually very easy)
2. it makes them work smarter when someone is captured than when one is killed.

But i would not stop an assassin from knocking out a PC with silent strike and taking him into the shadows to move on to the next PC, I do not think that is evil.
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"Dig it. Who's the man? I'm the man. I'm a bad man. How bad? Real bad. I'm a 12.0 on the 10.0 scale of badness." The Evil Midnight Bomber

Wanted Poster

[garhkal]

What if it is not in the npc's mentality to capture? Not all are that way.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[netjedi]

[KageRyu]