Stun

[Snapshot]

I'm obviously not the first to observe that setting your weapon to "stun" is a very effective way to take enemies down. While it requires a wound result or better, the 2D minutes unconsciousness seems overpowered.

(Note this refers to REUP rules - not sure about earlier versions).

I'm looking for a mechanic that makes stun useful, but not so useful it becomes the go-to method for dealing with enemies.

The key to the idea is that a target's stun results accumulate for 30 minutes (unless 1 minute rest is taken). Plus, a character falls unconscious for 2D minutes when he suffers stuns equal to his (full) D in STR. (p100 of REUP edition).

So, when a weapon delivers stun damage, compare the damage to the target's resistance roll. For each full multiple that damage exceeds the resistance roll, the target suffers 1 stun result.

For example, a 4D blaster set to stun, does 14 stun damage against a target with 2D STR. The resistance roll is 7, so it inflicts 2 stun results, and the target falls unconscious for 2D minutes. Against a target with 3D STR, rolling 11, the target suffers 1 stun. If he is already under the effect of 2 earlier stuns, he also falls unconscious. The dice gods mean it's perfectly plausible for the blaster to knock the 3D STR target out, but the odds are in the target's favour.

For high STR characters, the odds are definitely in their favour. However, as per standard rules, all stun results persist, so you just need to be a little bit lucky to get those stuns stacking (or use a riot gun!).

Inspired by the rules for ionization, I'm also tempted to say that armor has no effect when evaluating stun damage, unless specifically stated otherwise. For example twi'lek antistun armor does apply; certain stun weapons specifically allow armor, etc.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

[Naaman]

We've tossed this around before.

I'm inclined to consider the following: Any character who attacks a stunned (knocked out character) get's a DSP (especially if they kill that character while knocked out [force sensitive or not]). Fail the DSP roll, lose your character.

Now, if the players are just dominating combat using the stun setting, my personal solution is to require a much higher damage result using the same damage chart.

I might rule that a result of incapacitated results in a stun result (which accumulates as normal), while a result of killed immediately knocks the target unconscious for whatever amount of time.

If the damage roll is wounded or less, then the stun has no effect.

[Raven Redstar]

Another way to handle this is to make it operate similar to ion weapons.

Stunned - 1 Stun
Wounded - 2 Stuns
Incapacitated - 3 Stuns
Mortally Wounded - 4 Stuns
Killed - Guaranteed Knockout

Each stun stacks a cumulative -1D Penalty. As per the rules: if you suffer as many stuns as your Die code in your Strength Attribute the character falls unconscious.

This can tone back the "instant knockout" effect, if that's what you're hoping for.
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RR
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[Snapshot]

[garhkal]

[Snapshot]

[Raven Redstar]

I personally, wouldn't ignore armor, just to keep things as close to established game understanding as you can when you do little fiddly bits and house rules here an there. The more exceptions you put into the game, the more complicated it gets for your players. Complexity is okay, but you're more likely to get push-back or outright rejection if the system or house rule you're introducing is too complicated, or not close enough to another established rule as a guideline. That's not to say that throwing something out that doesn't work for your story or group isn't doable... but, it's a easier pill to swallow if you just explain to your group that stun blasts work like ion weapons on people.

I wouldn't worry about the extra 1-2D in soak from armor, because you still are only competing with the target's Strength Attribute for Stun threshold. Armor will already be slightly diminished, as a weapon set on stun (more often, than not) will be rolling against a target's energy soak, which with almost all suits of armor, is less than the physical, so they're already being penalized.
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RR
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[Whill]

Yeah we've talked about it here before. In 1e, a wounded result on stun damage equaled a stun, and above that was unconscious. That made sense. Then in 2e they made it wounded or higher equals unconscious. In Star Wars the goal of most firefights is immediate: to stop the enemy from taking you out of the fight. Incapacitating or knocking your enemy unconscious is usually good enough for now, so making sure they never get up later is not usually necessary. 2e RAW makes stun tactically superior to normal damage, but that does not accurately reflect the films. You never see stun being used unless the goal is specifically to not harm the target. So normal blaster setting should still be at least slightly tactically superior. In the film you never see stun being used unless the goal is specifically to not harm the target. 1e reflected that better than 2e.

RR, that's a sensible response. Naaman, while your suggestion does address the issue, I feel it skews too much in the other direction and makes stun too weak. A simple way to handle it is to go back to the 1e relationships between normal damage and stun damage. Just make stunned = no effect, wounded = stunned, and incapacitated or more = unconscious. You can still use the 2e chart for this.

Here are my tweaks to the damage/wound system which implement this basic concept: http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=161842#161842
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Star Wars D6 Damage

[Naaman]

Fair enough.

I figure if someone is using stun there are basically one of two reasons for it:

1: the target is otherwise a negligible threat (unarmed, untrained, common miscreant type--a nuisance criminal but otherwise more or less harmless) and has not done anything worthy of escalation to lethal force.

2: the target is otherwise so valuable alive as to justify the risk of attempting live capture despite any threat they may pose.

In all other cases, using stun is tactical suicide. It just does not end fights reliably enough (some folks just tough it out and/or are not fazed at all by it).

In the case of Leia, she fits both 1 and 2, at least from the perspective of a storm trooper backed up by Darth Vader.

In other words, in real life, if the threat is lethal (or reasonably potentially lethal), lethal force is used if available. If the threat is non-lethal, then the "stun setting" (i.e. tasers, pepper spray, bean bags etc) are put to use.

If realism is desired (not saying it is), then I'd consider making stun much less likely to work so that it's use would be reserved only for scenarios wherein live capture is an absolute necessity (or the goodness of the character prevents the use of lethal force, because they can't justify it under the circumstances, so they accept the inherent risk of using stun instead).

Bottom line: I see "stun" as a tactical option reserved for specific scenarios as opposed to a utilitarian alternative to deadly force.

[Dredwulf60]

[Naaman]

If we really want to get detailed, we could make "high damage" stun weapons that compensate for the relative ineffectiveness but carry a risk of inflicting lethal damage.

[Raven Redstar]

A couple of interesting points here.

You could say that any standard weapon that is switched to Stun does so at a -1D to its damage rating, if you feel like Stun is being abused too much in your games.

I've found that stun is sparingly used in my games. Most players I've played with over the years enjoy kill-shots. In fact, my most recent game, the character's kill count in near 100 and he's stunned 3 targets. And the rules I used above worked perfectly. For an person with average Strength (2D), you still just have to score wound to render the target unconscious.

A typical PC (3D) needs an incapacitated level to render unconscious, and there's no chance of accidentally killing the target, except if they are located in a dangerous area, like dangling over a pit of lava or above a high drop.
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RR
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[garhkal]

[MrNexx]

[Naaman]