Skills and Non-Proficiencies

[shootingwomprats]

One of the core mechanics of Star Wars d6 is that anyone can perform a non-advanced skill without training without penalty. I know that sometimes I wish were a penalty, something to add a bit more crunch or consequence for min/maxing players.

Option 1: Pick-Up Skills:
At character creation, the player may choose 4 Pick-up Skills to represent general knowledge they have picked up through life experience. These skills are listed on the character sheet but they have no dice in them. When using these skills the character is not assessed a Non-Proficiency Penalty (+5 modifier to the Task Difficulty).

Option 2: Everyman Skills
The galaxy is a big place, but some skills seem nearly universal. All characters start with the listed skills as Pick-Up Skills. They do not get a modifier of any type when using the skill, but they are not assessed a Non-Proficiency Penalty.

Defense Skills: Brawling Parry (DEX), Dodge (DEX), Melee Parry (DEX).
Offensive Skills: Blaster (DEX), Brawling (STR).
Transportation Skills (choose one): Aquatic Vehicle Operation, Beast Riding, Ground Vehicle Operation, Hover Vehicle Operation, Repulsorlift Operation, Submersible Vehicle Operation, Swoop Operation, or Walker Operation.
Standard Skills: Climbing/Jumping (STR), Computer Ops (TEC), Running (DEX), Search (PER), Swimming (STR).

This skill package is meant to be generic. The GM is encouraged to create new packages based on the planet, culture, region, of his games.

What about combat skills? Are they assessed a Non-Proficiency Penalty too? This is up to the GM. Depends on how much crunch you want and the feel you want for your game. My thoughts, if your going to work with a Non-Proficiency mechanic it should apply to all skills. Though the argument can be made that is Star Wars and that defense skills are important for heroes, so Defense Skills (Brawling Parry, Dodge, and Melee Parry) do not suffer from a Non-Proficiency Penalty.

I am open to suggestions.
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[Naaman]

Perhaps a simpler solution would be to "start" skills at +1D over the attribute when they are "learned."

Consider: basic human average is 2D, and a "trained" person is 3D.

Why not just charge the character with 2D in an attribute 2CP, and he acquires the skill at 3D as a "trained skill" (this circumvents the initial 4 CP required to bring the skill to 2D+1 and then 2D+2, but... seems inconsequential to me, YMMV). In terms of cost, it would be just as if he had raised the skill from 2D+2 to 3D.

Then, any "untrained" skills would be rolled at the attribute, and the "penalty" is built in since they haven't taken advantage of the initial training discount to raise the skill beyond the novice level.

I also feel that there are some hints in the rules that can maybe be expanded upon: The lightsaber, the Bowcaster and perhaps some other items are "unique" in that they require their own skill, as opposed to being a specialization of a standard skill. Certain items could be considered rare or exotic enough that they require their own skill to use, and the GM could even rule that without actual training (spending those initial CPs), the skill is too unfamiliar to even use (or, just add a ridiculous penalty, like +20 difficulty... or whatever suits your fancy).

[Mamatried]

We use the "normal" character creation as of now. But I like this and this is something we tried out.

We decided that sice you have the attribute D in every skill by default, we allowed a total of 12 skills to be trained, these you can only raise with 2D from creation like normal, but when creation is finished you are given extra 3D to place on the "listed on template" skills, to indicate your training.
However we could not pace more than max +2 to any one skill using the last 3D.

Jedi charcters recieved 1D to force skills, and 2D to skills.
the 1D going to the force skills had to be split into pips.
or it could be traded for a total of 3 force powers.

[Wajeb Deb Kaadeb]

I'm the 1E guy. Star Wars is Space Opera. Zip. Boom. Bam.

I'm generally opposed to adding crunch to this game.

If it were me, and I had to add crunch, then I think I would just make it simple and designate more skills to be Advanced skills.

But, I like the game the way it is. To me, it represents the color and attitude of the original trilogy.

Now, if we were playing another game, I might side with the idea. But, Star Wars is supposed to be easy. I don't want to run into things like, "Oh my! Your character is a farm boy from Tatooine! He's never swung across a chasm before, with a princess on his arm--especially not with stormtroopers firing at him!"

I just want to be able to say, when the player says that he's grabbing the princess by the waist and swinging across the pit, "OK! Since you don't have an appropriate skill, then just use your DEX attribute. Roll! Let's go!"

[garhkal]

[Naaman]

Can you list some skills that are impossible to "attempt"? I can "attempt" brain surgery with a hammer and a pick.

I can wrap duct tape around a leaky pipe even if I'm not a plumber. I can drop stop-leak in my power steering reservoir even if I'm not a mechanic. I can put a band-aid on even if I'm not a medic.

I may get it wrong (that is, fail the roll), but to deny even an attempt destroys my suspension of disbelief.

I once had a GM drown my character who happened to fall into some water and because the "swimming" skill wasn't written on my sheet (just written, even if it hadn't been raised), I wasn't allowed to roll STR to "attempt" to not drown.

[garhkal]

[Naaman]

No, seriously: if you see that there is a hole in the hull of your speeder, you can nail a board over it to "repair" it. There is always SOMETHING you can TRY.

Even in today's cell phone age, each of my kids (around 1 year old) instantly knew what to do when they first saw a regular telephone with a receiver (you know, the kind that is plugged into the wall, and you actually have to "hang up" when you are done with), even though they had never seen one used before.

Now, not knowing what a nav computer is would be a different story. But, that can be easily dealt with via role playing:

Player: I go through the door.

GM: You enter a room with some chairs and a what looks like a counter top with a bunch of lights and levers on it surrounding the front half of the room. (This is the cock pit, which the PC, who doesn't know what a starship is is seeing for the first time).

Player: Are there any words or labels on anything?

GM: Yeah. On one monitor, you see what looks like a logo on the inset with the word "NavStar."

Player (not wanting to meta-game): Does my character know anything about space travel? Like, even legends or fairy tales?

GM: I'm thinking no.

Player: Is there a skill I can roll to see if my character understands what this is?

GM: Sure. Roll Technology; it's a Knowledge skill.

Player: I don't have that skill. Basic Knowledge check?

GM: Sure.

Player (rolls 2D+2): I rolled 8.

GM (taking the backwater background into account): The monitor with the word "NavStar" on it appears to be some kind of technological device.

Player: Great. Okay, well, I pull a random lever. What happens?

[Mamatried]

[MrNexx]

I'd say we already have examples of characters who DON'T have basic knowledge of the galactic tech base... Ewoks in R&E, and no doubt others. How is it handled? They have far lower Technical attribute maximums, and a Skill Limit that prevents them from putting dice in skills they wouldn't have access to. In theory, your Fresh Off the Moon Ewok can use Astrogation to plot a course out of his backwater system... which means something for the Galactic Tech base.

My view of the galactic tech base is that it's designed to be idiot-proof. A lot of things are designed to be as user-friendly as possible, with a fair amount of AI to overcome problems. If you want to plot a course with your 3D+2 Mechanical skill, then you can do that... you'll average about a 12, which is enough for most Astrogation checks. You'll do OK if it's not too crowded and, if you're allowed to concentrate on JUST flying, you'll even do ok in a restricted flying space if you're not being shot at or trying to break speed records.

Want to plot a course from Endor to Sullust? You go to the NavComputer, and point to the places you want to go, and it suggests a route, and does most of the calculation for you. If you've stolen an Imperial shuttle and they don't KNOW about the Hyperspace Corridor the rebel alliance opened between Endor and Sullust, it will suggest a route that will take you a long way out of the way (maybe going to Corellia first, then to Sullust)... reducing your difficulty a lot by taking an extra 17 hours on the trip.

In short, I don't see a need to place additional restrictions on the use of Mechanical and Technical skills. The system already handles it pretty well.
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[Mamatried]

It refers to a different system, but usually in a fantasy setting the riding skill sort of fall in under the description of skill use that MrNexx wrote above here.

I am not sure if it is the raw in any system, but I think from day one I have always heard that the ride skill was used in the following way, or extremely close to this.

Rolling checks only when doing anything than sitting in the saddle "riding" in normal speed from a to b.
once you had to jump, gallop or something that actually made you an active rider, then the roll came.

so I can see how it is much the same in mr Nexx ewok example, he would know that that button is on or off, or figure it out by reasoning.

If at a basic tech level, not listed as stone age, then a normal repulsorlift vehicle is common enough, sitting on one, steering it in normal speed from to be, from home to work and back IMO requires no check and are by default instant success, but once he have to swirl to avoid a collision he now have to roll and here will the tech difference come in, the low thechie may have to actually learn the craft.

I like the riding skill analogy where riding is routine and require no check, doing anything, or riding in any particular non base speed way require a skill check/roll

[griff]

I have always played (since 2ed) that the skills printed on the character sheet were skills that the character could use without penalty. If the player could argue that the character would have had exposure to the skill there would only be a -1D penalty. If there had been no exposure to the skill the penalty would be to cut the attribute dice in half.
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[garhkal]