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MrNexx
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 Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:59 am Post subject: How much is a starting DSP "Worth"? |
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I know this question goes a bit beyond the standard rules but...
What would you say, mechanically, starting with a Dark Side Point should be worth? An Attribute/Force Skill die? A Skill Die? A Specialization? A Force Power?
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Great Question.
I actually don't know, that is the best answer I can give.
From mind I think there is a template written up in classic heroes or clare skies, the disgraced dark apprentice.
Looking over the template I can't see the added DSP gives anything positive in return.
However I have seen in most cases cutom templates and house rules that do offer anyone to an added force point to a special ability or 1D worth.
Some also give added starting CP where the DSP character starts with +5CP compared to the non DSP character. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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The Failed Jedi template starts with 1 DSP, but gets nothing for it.
I had a character with a bloodline trait (completely house ruled) which required that the character start with "a number of darkside points greater than 0" (subject to player/gm discussion).
The concept was that the bloodline was particularly susceptible to the dark side while having greater than usual heroic potential (essentially the light/dark dichotomy amplified to a greater degree).
Start of Game
1 (or more) DSPs
All athletic skills (running, acrobatics, climbing/jumpinng, lifting, stamina, swimming) cost 1/2 CP to raise forever (natural talent).
Lure of the Dark Side
Willpower roll required to spend FP. If failed, FP is spent as normal, and gain a DSP.
When atoning, must pay 2 FPs per DSP.
While character's DSP total is greater than 0 and less than 6, must pay one additional CP to raise any non-athletic skills.
Heroic Destiny (Upon Complete Atonement and while DSP total remains 0)
+1D bonus on all willpower rolls (not an actual increase to the character's skill)
If willpower roll to spend FP is failed, may forgo the FP bonus in order to avoid the DSP (FP still spent, but this usually counted as heroic FP use).
When spending CPs to increase a die roll, roll one additional bonus die (1 CP = +2D bonus, 2 CP = +3D bonus, etc.)
When spending a FP, the character my choose to voluntarily fail the willpower check. If so, the FP bonus is gained, but the FP is not spent. The character gains a DSP, and an additional +1D bonus on all skill rolls for 2 rounds after the FP expires (the dark side wants to lure the character back).
I know that's kind of extravagant and beyond the scope of a general "rulebook" type of rule. But just posting it in case it's helpful for the discussion.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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If I had to house rule something on the fly, I'd just give them an extra 1D in starting Skill Dice (8D total) and be done with it. 1 DSP doesn't really count for that much, since by the RAW, you're in no danger of losing your character to the Dark Side. I've heard of House Rules that increase the Difficulty of Force Powers for every DSP you have, but that seems counterintuitive to how the Force and the Dark Side function. Instead, I'd be more inclined to have DSPs increase the Difficulty for my Willpower House Rule, at +5 Difficulty per DSP.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | If I had to house rule something on the fly, I'd just give them an extra 1D in starting Skill Dice (8D total) and be done with it. 1 DSP doesn't really count for that much, since by the RAW, you're in no danger of losing your character to the Dark Side. I've heard of House Rules that increase the Difficulty of Force Powers for every DSP you have, but that seems counterintuitive to how the Force and the Dark Side function. Instead, I'd be more inclined to have DSPs increase the Difficulty for my Willpower House Rule, at +5 Difficulty per DSP. |
I thought the RAW was that 1 DSP gave you +1D on Force skills, unless you specifically suppressed it and took a penalty, instead (p. 141)?
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | If I had to house rule something on the fly, I'd just give them an extra 1D in starting Skill Dice (8D total) and be done with it. 1 DSP doesn't really count for that much, since by the RAW, you're in no danger of losing your character to the Dark Side. I've heard of House Rules that increase the Difficulty of Force Powers for every DSP you have, but that seems counterintuitive to how the Force and the Dark Side function. Instead, I'd be more inclined to have DSPs increase the Difficulty for my Willpower House Rule, at +5 Difficulty per DSP. |
I thought the RAW was that 1 DSP gave you +1D on Force skills, unless you specifically suppressed it and took a penalty, instead (p. 141)? |
Yes. That's how it works.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: How much is a starting DSP "Worth"? |
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| MrNexx wrote: | I know this question goes a bit beyond the standard rules but...
What would you say, mechanically, starting with a Dark Side Point should be worth? An Attribute/Force Skill die? A Skill Die? A Specialization? A Force Power? |
Why should it be worth something??
Taking a look in core books, we see the Failed jedi. Starts with A DSP.. Still has the same 18/7 as anyone else.
Heck, in Sparks, we allow the bounty hunter, to make a choice. BTB they are always non force sensitive. BUT we allow them the option to choose TO BE force sensitive, so they start with 2 fp, but have one dsp for it..
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I've heard of House Rules that increase the Difficulty of Force Powers for every DSP you have, but that seems counterintuitive to how the Force and the Dark Side function. Instead, I'd be more inclined to have DSPs increase the Difficulty for my Willpower House Rule, at +5 Difficulty per DSP. |
BTB you gain a +1d to activate force powers, PER DSP you have. BUT you are more supceptable of gaining MORE DSPS by accepting that bonus. IF YOu refuse that bonus, that's when the power use becomes harder..
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: How much is a starting DSP "Worth"? |
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| garhkal wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | I know this question goes a bit beyond the standard rules but...
What would you say, mechanically, starting with a Dark Side Point should be worth? An Attribute/Force Skill die? A Skill Die? A Specialization? A Force Power? |
Why should it be worth something??
Taking a look in core books, we see the Failed jedi. Starts with A DSP.. Still has the same 18/7 as anyone else.
Heck, in Sparks, we allow the bounty hunter, to make a choice. BTB they are always non force sensitive. BUT we allow them the option to choose TO BE force sensitive, so they start with 2 fp, but have one dsp for it..
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Because, as a general rule, a voluntarily taken disadvantage should be worth something?
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: How much is a starting DSP "Worth"? |
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| garhkal wrote: | | BTB you gain a +1d to activate force powers, PER DSP you have. BUT you are more supceptable of gaining MORE DSPS by accepting that bonus. IF YOu refuse that bonus, that's when the power use becomes harder.. |
I double-checked the Rulebook w/r/t DSPs making characters more susceptible to getting more DSPs and the closest I can find is the rule for falling to the Dark side. In fact, where in the rules do characters even have a risk w/ modification for a chance to avoid getting a DSP when they otherwise might?
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I'd grant the character an extra 1D in an attribute, in most cases "The Force".
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | I thought the RAW was that 1 DSP gave you +1D on Force skills, unless you specifically suppressed it and took a penalty, instead (p. 141)? |
My bad. I must've misremembered it. That would actually fold in nicely with my Willpower rule, since the degree of Difficulty is set by whatever the highest Force skill Difficulty is for the power in question, so a +5 modifier to one extends to the other.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: How much is a starting DSP "Worth"? |
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| MrNexx wrote: | I know this question goes a bit beyond the standard rules but...
What would you say, mechanically, starting with a Dark Side Point should be worth? An Attribute/Force Skill die? A Skill Die? A Specialization? A Force Power? |
| MrNexx wrote: | | I thought the RAW was that 1 DSP gave you +1D on Force skills, unless you specifically suppressed it and took a penalty, instead (p. 141)? |
So it doesn't go beyond RAW and you answered your own question? One DSP comes with an optional bonus, and if you choose that bonus that comes with a downside. Or do you mean the Jedi should get something for the case where they resist the bonus and suffer the penalty?
I forgot about that rule too. Willpower is definitely not out of place here too. It looks like I may be revamping my DSP rules.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: How much is a starting DSP "Worth"? |
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| Whill wrote: | | Or do you mean the Jedi should get something for the case where they resist the bonus and suffer the penalty? |
This. I'd say starting the game with a DSP counts as a Minor Disadvantage, so a counterbalancing Minor Advantage of some form wouldn't be amiss. Of course, if we're getting into details on Advantages and Disadvantages, the Failed Jedi should also have at least some degree of Addiction (Alcoholic) Disadvantage.
| Quote: | | Willpower is definitely not out of place here too. It looks like I may be revamping my DSP rules. |
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.
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The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Last edited by CRMcNeill on Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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If we look at the disgraced dark apprentice from classic heroes, this template starts with 0 force points, 2 DSPS and naturally 1D in all three force skills.
However the charater does not seem to have anything "positive" to counter the disadvantage of 0 FPs and 2DSPs |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: | If we look at the disgraced dark apprentice from classic heroes, this template starts with 0 force points, 2 DSPS and naturally 1D in all three force skills.
However the charater does not seem to have anything "positive" to counter the disadvantage of 0 FPs and 2DSPs |
And neither does the Failed Jedi Template. The point being argued here is whether or not they should, and to what degree.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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