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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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 Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 1:03 pm Post subject: Streamlining Imperial Military Forces |
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Here's some basic notes I'm working on regarding the simplification of the Imperial military. Some new ships and vehicles are mentioned but I haven't written up stats yet.
NEW SHIPS & EQUIPMENT----
Imperial Battle Carrier: heavily armed star carrier / 900 meters long / compliment: 1 star fighter wing & 1 full battalion with Air Ship
Imperial Air Ship: Mobile Command Center, Seige Platform, and Battalion Headquarters all-in-one / high flight ceiling / drops from orbital vessels and establishes a battlefront / often used as mobile garrison / army compliment (full battalion)
Imperial Modular Air Speeder
Configurations:
APC: troop capacity (40)
Hover Tank: equipped with heavy blaster turret & armor, sacrificed flight ceiling / troop capacity 8
Tactical-Recon: equipped with additional blasters & upgraded sensors, stripped down for speed & greater flight ceiling / passengers (2)
Transport: expanded chassis and light plated cargo shell, sacrificed speed / large cargo capacity or troops (200)
Carryall: equipped with massive repulsors and mag-claw / carries 2 AT-ST's / 2 carryalls can carry 1 AT-AT
Engi (NG) Droid: engineering droid, standard issue to all army platoons
Engi Skiff: workhorse of the Imperial engineering corps
Engi Barge: capable of massive construction and engineering projects
ARMY------
Squad
8 Stormtroopers
Platoon
40 Stormtroopers
4 Regular Army Troops (RATs)
2 Speederbikes
1 Modular Air Speeder
1 Engi Droid ("NG" series)
Company
200 Stormtroopers
20 RATs
10 Speederbikes
5 MAS
1 ATAT
2 ATST
5 Engi Droids
1 Engi Skiff (3 Engineers)
Battalion
1000 ST
100 RATs
50 SB
25 MAS
5 ATAT
10 ATST
25 Engi Droids
5 Engi Skiffs
1 Engi Barge (20 Engineers)
1 Air Ship
Regiment
5 Battalions
Division
5 Regiments
Sector Army
5 Divisions
NAVY-----
Flight
4 TIEs
Squadron
20 TIEs
4 TIE Interceptors
4 TIE Bombers
4 TIE Scouts
1 Sentinel Shuttle
Wing
100 TIEs
20 TI
20 TB
20 TS
5 Sentinels
Strike Fleet
1 Strike Cruiser (company/squadron)
2 Arquitens (platoon/flight)
2 Lancer Frigates
3+ Support Craft
Battle Fleet
1 Battle Carrier (battalion/wing)
2 Modular Taskforce Cruisers
5+ Support Craft
5 Strike Fleets
Destroyer Fleet
1 Star Destroyer (regiment/wing)
2 Interdictor Cruisers
10+ Support Craft
5 Battle Fleets
Division Fleet
5 Destroyer Fleets
Sector Fleet
5 Division Fleets |
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Nicely done.
Are you concernedwith fleshing out the headquarters elements, or are you only concerned with the combat troops?
Also, do you have plans for specialized units (such as artillery and tanks, etc)? |
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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I think it'd be cool to flesh out at least the hq aspects of the airship. Fixed artillery and other fortifications would be set up by the engineers as needed and would vary according to the circumstances IMO. I like the air ships filling in for prefab garrisons in most cases because they're not subject to terrain complications. I'd like the Modular Air Speeder's multiple configurations to account for a lot of special vehicles. The Hover tank configuration should be formidable. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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I see some serious organizational issues here, but that's coming from the perspective of someone who likes the basic concept of the Sector Group Organization from the ImpSB (if not all the details). If that's not something you're interested in, I'll bow out.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14229
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:43 am Post subject: |
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Coming from the mindset of someone in the mil..
A squad is usually compromised of 3 fire teams, a squad leader and a heavy weapon specialist. Fire teams are usually 4 men groups (3 ars and a grenadier)
A platoon is normally 4 squads
A company has 3 To 4 platoons.
And a batallion has anywhere from 4 to 7 companies..
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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I see some serious organizational issues here, but that's coming from the perspective of someone who likes the basic concept of the Sector Group Organization from the ImpSB (if not all the details). If that's not something you're interested in, I'll bow out. |
I love the info in the ImpSB, I just wanted something that was easier to quickly reference and made some kind of sense in game. That being said, I'm all ears if this looks broken.
Last edited by Ning Leihrec on Fri May 05, 2017 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Coming from the mindset of someone in the mil..
A squad is usually compromised of 3 fire teams, a squad leader and a heavy weapon specialist. Fire teams are usually 4 men groups (3 ars and a grenadier)
A platoon is normally 4 squads
A company has 3 To 4 platoons.
And a batallion has anywhere from 4 to 7 companies.. |
My goal is to simplify the structure for me personally while adhering to an Imperial doctrine of "overwhelming force". Hence groupings of 5 instead of 3 or 4. I figure any combination of infantry types would be group by squads, platoons, or companies as the mission required. It's just simpler for me than referring to the more detailed charts in the ImpSB. |
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I see some serious organizational issues here, but that's coming from the perspective of someone who likes the basic concept of the Sector Group Organization from the ImpSB (if not all the details). If that's not something you're interested in, I'll bow out. |
FWIW, I think that the published material is way off base as far as being any kind of functional operational force. This set up is much better, IMO.
OP:
The smallest operational element is the squad. The squad should have enough equipment to deal with any commonly encountered battlefield threat from fellow infantrymen to snipers and tanks and repulsorcraft (not starfighter scale, but airspeeders and the like). They should be able to take out bunkers and effectively assault objectives, having things like basic explosives for either breaching or laying ambushes, etc. Of course, all of this equipment should be man portable when the squad is performing dismounted operations (anti-tank weaponry is therefore limited to one-shot disposable weapons, etc, etc). If mounted, the squad will be driving it's OWN vehicles, etc.
Specialists such as medics, communications techs, etc. belong to the HQ element and MAY be attached to squads at the commander's discretion. Even though and infantryman will know perfectly well how to operate the radio and render first aid, the specialists will have both higher skills in these areas as well as more advanced equipment (but will have only the baseline skill with the combat skills). So specialists will add to a squad's capabilities by bringing specialized equipment and expertise.
In addition to a basic loadout (rifle and ammo, first aid kit, frag grenade, blah blah), a single squad has access to the following (depending on what the commander or squad leader decides his men should have for a particular mission):
A light or medium repeater per fire team.
One grenade launcher per fire team.
One anti-tank weapon per fire team.
One vehicle per fire team (basic light vehicle can transport 4 or 5 troops, each member of the squad is fully qualified and trained to drive that vehicle.
A heavy repeater or other heavy weapon per vehicle (not man portable).
A designated marksman per squad (otherwise functions as a normal rifleman). Will have a more advanced version of the squad's main weapon (accurized, with a nice optic, etc).
One radio per squad (but squad can communicate with each other using intra-squad comms).
Squad- or team-level pyro (explosives such as special grenades, claymores, etc).
That is pretty much the most BASIC infantry squad and what is AVAILABLE to them (mission dictating) without needing special permission or requesting augmentation from higher commands. The squad is accountable for and maintains all of that equipment (it is "theirs").
There are also specialized infantry (without even getting into the various other combat arms specialties) such as mechanized infantry, mortarmen, etc, who all have the same training as a standard grunt, but also are trained to drive light tanks (think Bradley) or use light artillery or what have you. Dredwulf and/or demonapostle can give you more info on infantry, specifically, though.
In any case, between CRM, garhkal and the other .mil folks around here, you should be able to get enough info to find whatever balance you're looking for between the RAW official organization, real life, and your own campaign needs. |
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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman, it sounds like the squad breakdown you've described is more applicable to my platoons. At the platoon level the unit is mobile and can accommodate a variety of troop types. As the squad stands at 8 men I imagine it might break down into 3 "line" fire teams of 2 riflemen each, and 1 "heavy" fire team of either a 2-man E-web team or 1 sharpshooter (heavy blaster rifle) and 1 anti tank trooper (plex launcher). |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14229
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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A 2 man unit is an element, not a fire team though.
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Ning Leihrec wrote: | | Naaman, it sounds like the squad breakdown you've described is more applicable to my platoons. At the platoon level the unit is mobile and can accommodate a variety of troop types. As the squad stands at 8 men I imagine it might break down into 3 "line" fire teams of 2 riflemen each, and 1 "heavy" fire team of either a 2-man E-web team or 1 sharpshooter (heavy blaster rifle) and 1 anti tank trooper (plex launcher). |
Yeah, do it how you want. 8)
I was merely providing info on how a real army does it, sort of piggybacking on garhkal's post. IRL, a squad can (should be able to) handle any LIKELY battlefield eventuality. A platoon is way to big to maneuver fluidly as a single unit. Squads are how things get done. The squad has to be as flexible as possible in order to keep command and control manageable. A platoon is way too many moving pieces to be the smallest operational element (in other words, if a squad can't do the job, then you HAVE to have a whole platoon available for every little thing).
That's a lot of upkeep: all the supplies (food/water, etc) that would have to be constantly managed and kept up...
Platoons DO operate as a single force; however, the squad is a fully functional, independent element: all squads in a platoon should be fully capable and equipped.
Now, there are some benefits at the platoon level: for example, the medic and commo guys I mentioned earlier (who belong to headquarters) are tasked out to individual platoons (the company will only ever have enough to assign one per platoon). A sniper is usually assigned at the platoon level (whereas SDMs are by definition squad level, etc).
In any case, do whatever makes the most sense to you. It's your universe, after all.  |
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Dredwulf60
Line Captain
Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 911
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Coming from the mindset of someone in the mil..
A squad is usually compromised of 3 fire teams, a squad leader and a heavy weapon specialist. Fire teams are usually 4 men groups (3 ars and a grenadier)
A platoon is normally 4 squads
A company has 3 To 4 platoons.
And a batallion has anywhere from 4 to 7 companies.. |
Hmmm
Not always my friend.
Maybe in the current organization of the US armed forces; but we have to note that's not how the US has always done it, and that's certainly not how every current military does it. Though broadly speaking, the differences are subtle, sometimes just in terminology; ie squad vs section and what is a 'fire team' vs an 'assault group' and who carries what.
We can't know for sure who the Empire would base their organization on, but for sake of argument, we can all use whatever organization works best in our games for whatever reasons we personally believe make sense. 
When I was doing it; in Canada, it was 8 men in a section. (We didn't use the term 'squad', and still don't AFAIK)
The section was composed of 2 Assault Groups; Assault group 1 and Assault group 2. (these are roughly analogous to what Garkhal calls Fire teams I think.)
Assault group 1
Section commander (Sgt) + Rifleman = Fire Team A
Rifleman+ Light machine gunner= Fire Team B
Assault group 2
Rifleman+ Rifleman= Fire Team C
Section second in command (MCpl) + Light machine gunner = Fire Team D
A Platoon was 3 such Sections + Platoon HQ/ wpns det
Platoon HQ/ Weapons detachment:
Platoon Commander (Officer; often a Lieutenant)
Signaller (Radio man)
Platoon second in command (NCO; typically a Warrant)
Weapons det commander (Typically a MCpl)
Machine Gunner (7.62mm GPMG)
Machine Gunner's assistant/ Rifleman
Light mortarman (60mm mortar)
Anti-tank gunner (84mm Recoilless)
Rifleman
For us, while a section was trained to operate as it's own unit, doctrinally speaking it was never expected to operate on its own in open battle; a platoon was the smallest unit that could be intentionally committed to combat.
Ideally the lead section encounters the enemy; it then engages with the assistance of the weapons detachment, while the 2 remaining sections close with and destroy the enemy (ie a flanking).
Of course every situation is different; that's just the bare bones vanilla training scenario.
note: I know that later they decided to get rid of the mortar and the 84mm at the platoon level and substituted a second GPMG; but that's after my time; and mechanized infantry includes the LAV crew and it's gun and the dismounts shake out a bit differently.
I've made up a few fantasy/ sci-fi military organizational structures in my day; who is to know if they are any good. And we tend to always short-change the admin and logistics types in favour of the cool combat types.
Something I realized pretty quickly when I went from leading a light infantry section to being a quartermaster for a light infantry company; a stark change from leading a small unit to being the guy who makes sure everyone has enough rations, water and ammo, not to mention fuel, batteries, bug repellant, sun screen, cam paint, the occasional hot meal, laundry service, spare parts, paracord, radios...fricken TOILET PAPER etc...
And they told me it was a promotion; sheeesh!
Anyways.
/nostalgia. |
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | For us, while a section was trained to operate as it's own unit, doctrinally speaking it was never expected to operate on its own in open battle; a platoon was the smallest unit that could be intentionally committed to combat. |
See, I knew there would be some alternative perspectives.
The way we trained, squads did everything:
In infantry-land, it was a 9-man deal with two fire teams and a squad leader.
In MP land, it was a 12-man element with four fire teams (one of which included the squad leader)
Infantry tended to operate on a much larger scale than MPs, so they did do platoon-level operations (whole platoons would respond as a QRF to every little thing, even). Still, all the maneuvers and tactics were trained at the squad level.
Anyway, OP: there you have it: lots of ways to get the same thing done (I still think the ImpSB is way out of whack, though). |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | Anyway, OP: there you have it: lots of ways to get the same thing done (I still think the ImpSB is way out of whack, though). |
Oh, I agree, but it still provides some interesting guidelines as to how things would work under the Empire. My main drawback with your above description of a squad is that I don't know if the Empire is necessarily interested in a well-equipped squad-level unit that can handle a huge variety of threats. The Imperial mindset has always been that of massive numbers of disposable, replaceable units.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah. Could be why stormies cantever win a fight... |
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