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Mojomoe
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 Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:51 pm Post subject: Species minimums and Stock NPCs |
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So I've got a question:
Species have attribute minimums. As in, an attribute can't fall below this number. For humans, this number is 2D in all attributes.
However, some stock NPCs have attributes below this level. A Rebel Pilot, for example, has Knowledge between 1D and 1D+2 according to some sources.
My question is, what gives? |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| WEG doesn't care about consistency. |
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Mojomoe
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Is that the real answer, that it was a mistake?
Or is there a rule function I'm missing about stock NPCs being able to have attributes below their species minimums? |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| No. That's the real answer. Its not a "mistake." SWD6 is full of inconsistencies such as these. |
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Whill
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | My question is, what gives? |
He's correct. The authors who statted human NPCs with attributes less than 2D are not the one who wrote the minimum human attribute values of 2D. It is very clear from the body of evidence that there was no overarching stat line editing done at WEG.
A simple fix is, lower the human attribute minimums to 1D.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Or up stock Npcs to those minimums which is my preferred way to do things.
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Dredwulf60
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Species minimums and Stock NPCs |
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| Mojomoe wrote: | A Rebel Pilot, for example, has Knowledge between 1D and 1D+2 according to some sources.
My question is, what gives? |
Perhaps the rebel pilots in question are morons?
I bet the stat line was entered by a rebel infantryman. Such inter-service rivalries! |
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jmanski
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I second Garhk's solution: add to the Attributes until they are all at 2d or over. Some Rebels and Imperials will be 14d or 15d but I accept that as a function of being in shape/better/whatever.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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I thought there was a line about "These minimums apply to PCs; NPCs are different."
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | I second Garhk's solution: add to the Attributes until they are all at 2d or over. Some Rebels and Imperials will be 14d or 15d but I accept that as a function of being in shape/better/whatever. |
Exactly. Heck you look at some npcs stats blocks, they don't even add up to the 12 dice "normal" that they supposedly are supposed to have..
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Naaman
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | I thought there was a line about "These minimums apply to PCs; NPCs are different." |
It would seem that the minimums apply to all members of a species, since the rules for minimums is found in the chapter on aliens, not character creation.
Even still, rules are only worth a darn if they don't cause problems in the game being played. Lightsaber Combat, anyone? |
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | jmanski wrote: | | Some Rebels and Imperials will be 14d or 15d but I accept that as a function of being in shape/better/whatever. |
Exactly. Heck you look at some npcs stats blocks, they don't even add up to the 12 dice "normal" that they supposedly are supposed to have.. |
They are not "supposed to have" 12D. jmanski is correct, NPCs can be 14D, 15D, whatever.
By RAW, 12D is the typical total number of attribute dice for humans, and happens to also be a the same typical total for a lot of other species. By RAW, PCs are +6D to the typical value of the species (so 18D in most cases). NPCs can have any total attribute dice value: less than typical, typical, in between typical and PC-level, PC-level, and even more than PC level.
I remember that one module, I think Tatooine Manhunt, had stats for bounty hunters of various calibers, and I think the lowest level was "Bumbling bounty hunter" who had some 1D or 1D+ attributes. I think that was appropriate.
| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | Mojomoe wrote: | | A Rebel Pilot, for example, has Knowledge between 1D and 1D+2 according to some sources. |
Perhaps the rebel pilots in question are morons? |
LOL. Perhaps. But the other thing to consider is, because of the utter lack of stat line editing, no stats should be considered inviolable canon. If something doesn't make sense, change it. I read the fluff text then restat anything to make it make more sense to me.
| jmanski wrote: | | I second Garhk's solution: add to the Attributes until they are all at 2d or over. |
I personally would have Rebel Pilots (of any species) have at least 2D for all attributes, but I don't see that all Human NPCs must have at least 2D in all attributes. The fluff text describes humans as being the most populous and varied species in the galaxy, and they do inhabit a very large number of varied habitats. Plus, don't you know people that would have less than 2D in an attribute if they were a character? I do. I think humans should have a 1D minimum in all attributes.
And, it never made sense to me for any species to have the typical stat also be the minimum stat. So in my game most species attribute ranges for most species have a minimum that is at least a pip (but often more) under the typical attribute value.
Also, due to the fluff describing humans as being so great at everything and the dominant species in the galaxy, I kept 2D as a galactic average but redefined the human typical stat as 2D+1 in everything, thus making humans a 14D species. All PCs of any species have exactly 18D in my game so there is game balance for PCs regardless for which species they each are.
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Last edited by Whill on Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | And, it never made sense to me for any species to have the typical stat also be the minimum stat. So in my game most species attribute ranges for most species have a minimum that is at least a pip (but often more) under the typical attribute value. |
This.
| Whill wrote: | | If something doesn't make sense, change it. |
And this.
The rebel spec force book, for example, stats the "elite" spec ops troops as having ~3D in their primary skills (like, you know, blaster), while the rebel alliance source book says that the basic troops on Hoth were rocking 5D+ in their primary skills... um.... wut? And then a basic soldier is in the 4D range (still higher than the spec ops guys... go figure). |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | jmanski wrote: | | Some Rebels and Imperials will be 14d or 15d but I accept that as a function of being in shape/better/whatever. |
Exactly. Heck you look at some npcs stats blocks, they don't even add up to the 12 dice "normal" that they supposedly are supposed to have.. |
They are not "supposed to have" 12D. jmanski is correct, NPCs can be 14D, 15D, whatever.
By RAW, 12D is the typical total number of attribute dice for humans, and happens to also be a the same typical total for a lot of other species. By RAW, PCs are +6D to the typical value of the species (so 18D in most cases). NPCs can have any total attribute dice value: less than typical, typical, in between typical and PC-level, PC-level, and even more than PC level.
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Agreed. 12d Is the typical level. BUT if they are 1d+1, 1d+2, 2d, 2d, 1d+1 and so on, it only adds up to 8-9D.. NOT 12d..So unless they have 1 or 2 stats above norm (such as the typical imp army trooper which has 3d dex, 3d+1 str, while the rest are 1d+1), then some of those NPC's won't add up..
| Naaman wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | And, it never made sense to me for any species to have the typical stat also be the minimum stat. So in my game most species attribute ranges for most species have a minimum that is at least a pip (but often more) under the typical attribute value. |
This.
| Whill wrote: | | If something doesn't make sense, change it. |
And this.
The rebel spec force book, for example, stats the "elite" spec ops troops as having ~3D in their primary skills (like, you know, blaster), while the rebel alliance source book says that the basic troops on Hoth were rocking 5D+ in their primary skills... um.... wut? And then a basic soldier is in the 4D range (still higher than the spec ops guys... go figure). |
Which is why a while back i started a thread about 'are they right', in what stats they had for 'typical spec force npcs' from RoE..
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Agreed. 12d Is the typical level. BUT if they are 1d+1, 1d+2, 2d, 2d, 1d+1 and so on, it only adds up to 8-9D.. NOT 12d..So unless they have 1 or 2 stats above norm (such as the typical imp army trooper which has 3d dex, 3d+1 str, while the rest are 1d+1), then some of those NPC's won't add up.. |
But that's my whole point. They don't have to add up to exactly 12D. NPCs of humans and other RAW 12D species can have only 8D-9D in total attribute dice. Those characters would be people of less than average ability, but they do exist.
There seems to be a fairly common mentality in the WEG SW RPG that all characters in the galaxy will have exactly 12D or 18D in total attributes. NPCs can be 9D, 12D, 15D, 18D, 21D, whatever.
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