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CRMcNeill
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 Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:10 pm Post subject: Pros / Cons of Going Prone or Kneeling |
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I don't recall seeing anything to this effect in the RAW, but it would seem to follow that there are advantages to avoid being hit, as well as hampering mobility. Here's a few points I'm considering...-Kneeling or Crouching provides a +1D Concealment bonus, while Going Prone / Crawling provides a +2D bonus.
-Either one can increase the effectiveness of Cover, by 25% if Kneeling/Crouching, or by 50% if Prone/Crawling.
-Either one penalizes movement, reducing the character's Move by 50% if Crouching, and by 75% if Crawling (partial numbers rounded up).
What I'm stumped on is how to apply these modifiers to Dodge. I'd appreciate thoughts and opinions...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Heck, if you are prone, i could see a bonus to YOUR aiming of say +1 or +2d.. BUT it would also be harder for YOu to then dodge out of the way.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:41 am Post subject: |
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I'd say simply turn the bonuses into penalties... kneeling or crouching gives you a -1D to Dodge (you can still move and dodge, but you're more limited), while prone makes you -2D. The increased effectiveness of cover and concealment more than make up for that.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Heck, if you are prone, i could see a bonus to YOUR aiming of say +1 or +2d.. BUT it would also be harder for YOu to then dodge out of the way. |
I knew I'd seen something like it somewhere. Naaman included a rule for this in his Tactical Combat thread. My only disagreement with his method was that he used flat values for penalties and bonuses, rather than Dice. Based on what he has there, I'd go with:Kneeling /Crouching - +1D to Blaster, -2D to Dodge.
Prone - +2D to Blaster, -4D to Dodge (his version made Dodge impossible while Prone; I prefer to go with "much more difficult.")
Transitioning from Standing to Crouch or vice versa is a Free Action, but transitioning from Standing or Crouching to Prone (or vice versa) is a Non Roll Action.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | I'd say simply turn the bonuses into penalties... kneeling or crouching gives you a -1D to Dodge (you can still move and dodge, but you're more limited), while prone makes you -2D. The increased effectiveness of cover and concealment more than make up for that. |
Good point. Ultimately, whatever penalties to Dodge are involved, they need to be enough to make crouching or going to ground an attractive option. I'll need to crunch some numbers.
Should there be bonuses to Sneak for being prone / crouched?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | I'd say simply turn the bonuses into penalties... kneeling or crouching gives you a -1D to Dodge (you can still move and dodge, but you're more limited), while prone makes you -2D. The increased effectiveness of cover and concealment more than make up for that. |
Good point. Ultimately, whatever penalties to Dodge are involved, they need to be enough to make crouching or going to ground an attractive option. I'll need to crunch some numbers.
Should there be bonuses to Sneak for being prone / crouched? |
I'd factor both of these into cover and concealment; in essence, you're making yourself smaller, and concealing a portion of your body, and making the concealment you find more effective.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: |
Transitioning from Standing to Crouch or vice versa is a Free Action, but transitioning from Standing or Crouching to Prone (or vice versa) is a Non Roll Action.[/list] |
Now that i agree with. Having trained in getting down to prone from standing, vice going to just a kneeling position, it is more time consuming, hence the needng a 'no roll action'..
As for his values, -2d/-4d dodge.. IMO i could see it -1d/-2d..
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Should there be bonuses to Sneak for being prone / crouched? |
+1d/+2d imo..
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| If we are going to add a bonus to sneak, perhaps consider imposing a speed penalty as well: the high/low crawl is not a very effective means of locamotion. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | If we are going to add a bonus to sneak, perhaps consider imposing a speed penalty as well: the high/low crawl is not a very effective means of locamotion. |
Already covered in the first post. Crouched movement cuts Move by 50%, and Crawling cuts it by 75%.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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I might also suggest that when crouching or crawling, you are limited in how many 'moves' you can take..
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | | If we are going to add a bonus to sneak, perhaps consider imposing a speed penalty as well: the high/low crawl is not a very effective means of locamotion. |
Already covered in the first post. Crouched movement cuts Move by 50%, and Crawling cuts it by 75%. |
Oh. Just overloked it, I guess. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I might also suggest that when crouching or crawling, you are limited in how many 'moves' you can take.. |
This is why I included the rule reducing base Move. A character with a Move of 10 will have his Move drop to 3 when Crawling (2.5 rounded up), so he can still scramble across the ground at All-out, but will only cover 12 meters instead of 40.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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In case its helpful, the kneeling and prone positions generally presume the availability of cover OR an engagement from quite far away (enough of a distance such that maneuvering through open terrain is more dangerous than just hitting the deck).
There is a strange thing that I call the Call of Duty Phenomenon wherein people think that COD is any kind of realistic. Someone (a navy veteran and avid COD player) once asked at work if when moving "tactically" in the open and encountering an enemy at close range, would it he wise to drop to the prone in order to be a smaller target and stabilize thd shooting position since it works in COD.
No one bothered to answer him... |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I might also suggest that when crouching or crawling, you are limited in how many 'moves' you can take.. |
This is why I included the rule reducing base Move. A character with a Move of 10 will have his Move drop to 3 when Crawling (2.5 rounded up), so he can still scramble across the ground at All-out, but will only cover 12 meters instead of 40. |
You didn't understand me. If i am prone, i can see it where i can't GO all out or fast (double)... Or if i am kneeling, i can say only go fast (no all out).
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | You didn't understand me. If i am prone, i can see it where i can't GO all out or fast (double)... Or if i am kneeling, i can say only go fast (no all out). |
No, I understood you fine; I just don't think it's a good idea. I considered this method while thinking up the original rule and ultimately discarded it in favor of what I posted. The RAW is already set up for different base Moves, so having them applied to the same character for different modes of locomotion is just an extension of an existing rule. Also, exempting crawling or crouching from the High and All-Out Speed levels also exempts them from the Stamina rolls required by the Long Distance Movement rules, so a character could crouch or crawl at his maximum speed without having to worry about getting tired. Not particularly realistic.
All-Out and High are not so much measurements of a character's absolute maximum velocity, but rather measurements of level of exertion. A character who is sprinting as fast as he can (running at All-Out) will exert himself just as hard to bear crawl or tiger crawl (crawling at All-Out); he will just cover less of a distance.
Let's look at swimming as another example. Michael Phelps' pace in the 100m Butterfly works out to 7.2km/h, or exactly 10m/s, the base Move of the average PC. There is no doubt that Phelps is pushing himself as hard as he can (All-Out), yet his base Move for Swimming only works out to 2.5.
Based on that, I'd say the average PC has at least four different base Moves, depending on the method of locomotion they are using:Running: 10
Crouched Running: 5
Crawling: 3
Swimming: 2 Which one your character uses is dependant on conditions, and each has its own advantages and disadvantages.
Because of the similarities in motive form between Running and Crouching, I'd be willing to go with Crouching using the base Move 10, but be unable to run All-Out, but I'm reasonably certain that Crawling and Swimming would need separate base Moves. YMMV.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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