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garhkal
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 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:09 am Post subject: Boil off an ocean?? |
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I was just wondering.. If a planet had turned rebel completely, how easily it would be for an imperial fleet (say 10 ISDS, 30 support cap ships) to just bombard the Oceans and seas of said planet, in an attempt to boil off the water as a way to punish said planet?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:04 am Post subject: Re: Boil off an ocean?? |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I was just wondering.. If a planet had turned rebel completely, how easily it would be for an imperial fleet (say 10 ISDS, 30 support cap ships) to just bombard the Oceans and seas of said planet, in an attempt to boil off the water as a way to punish said planet? |
I'd say it's feasible. In the Bounty Hunter Wars novel trilogy by K.W. Jeter, Palpatine didn't just burn off the water, he had a planet's entire water supply physically removed, shipping it to Coruscant (and likely other worlds as well), leaving the offending world as a dessicated husk. If the Empire can do that, boiling off a planet's oceans would be simple by comparison.
IIRC, in the video game Wing Commander IV, the Flash-Packs used by the Black Dragon fighters operated on a principle of molecular fission of water, splitting off the hydrogen and oxygen found in H2O, then explosively recombining them. If you can handle the handwavium, a sci-fi tech warhead that can literally set water on fire might be just what you need in this scenario.
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Melkor
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Location: Grants Pass Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| I am going to steal this Flash Pack idea. Perhaps send my players to try and stop the bombing of Mon Cal. Out of curiosity which Wing Commander were the Black Dragon's in, I barely remember III and IV. |
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Zarn
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill did say, "IIRC, in the video game Wing Commander IV (...)"... |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Melkor wrote: | | I am going to steal this Flash Pack idea. Perhaps send my players to try and stop the bombing of Mon Cal. Out of curiosity which Wing Commander were the Black Dragon's in, I barely remember III and IV. |
The source was actually a blurb from the novelization of Wing Commander IV. The Flash Pack itself was an anti-ship device that ignited a ship's internal atmosphere. The novel included speculation that it functioned on the water fission principle but didn't go into it any further than that. However, the idea of using [technobabble] to set water on fire is a pretty cool concept.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:53 am Post subject: |
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I'd say that it's doable, partially just based on the example of Taris. If KOTOR era destroyers can inflict that level of damage on a planet, I can easily see it happening with a few Star Destroyers... set up the guns and go get tacos, come back when the planet's water has been boiled away.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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SO how long do you think it would take for say an Earth like planet?
What would some of the effects be to people on said plant during tha time..
IE Initial bombardment starts.
1 hr into it
6 hrs into it
12 hrs and so on?
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | SO how long do you think it would take for say an Earth like planet?
What would some of the effects be to people on said plant during tha time..
IE Initial bombardment starts.
1 hr into it
6 hrs into it
12 hrs and so on? |
A lot depends, but I'd be inclined to it taking about a standard week of constant bombardment from 10 Star Destroyers to really boil off the oceans, but you're going to get significant planetary destruction LONG before that.
Consider that each blast from a turbolaser will evaporate a quantity of water. There are 5 seconds in a round, so 12 blasts a minute, 720 blasts an hour, 17280 blasts per day... assuming they're not firing more rapidly, eating the MAPs because the target is "That ocean", and not a starfighter. EDIT: That's per turbolaser, incidentally, of which the average ISD has 60; even if you assume that only 40 can effectively hit the planet at one time, that's a lot of turbolasers.
Now, this is going to dump a LOT of energy into the atmosphere. The oceans will start to boil, and you'll get lots of vapor, and since you're still pumping MORE energy into it, you get a Venus hothouse and not a nuclear winter. Temperatures rise, major storms, etc.... especially if you start using your ion cannons to make lightning paths and help up the destruction factor.
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Last edited by MrNexx on Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I like that suggestion of using ion cannons to make storm pathways!
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Without some way of actually destroying the water molecules, though, you're just going to be creating a lot more steam than anything else, and steam will eventually just condense into rain and fall back to the ground. You'll likely turn the planet into a cloud covered steam bath, but the vast majority of it will still be present, baring actual destruction via something like the Flash Pack or physical removal of the water.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Without some way of actually destroying the water molecules, though, you're just going to be creating a lot more steam than anything else, and steam will eventually just condense into rain and fall back to the ground. You'll likely turn the planet into a cloud covered steam bath, but the vast majority of it will still be present, baring actual destruction via something like the Flash Pack or physical removal of the water. |
It kinda depends what happens with each blaster/turbolaser bolt.
As I conceive it, you'll have a primary and secondary reaction from each hit. The primary reaction is going to involve some molecular debonding, as the plasma of the bolt literally breaks the bonds of the water, giving you hydrogen and oxygen (the second likely as ozone). THAT reaction is going to produce a lot of heat, resulting in substantial evaporation, far more in volume than you get of actual molecular debonding. So, while a single bolt might result in the volume x debonding, it will probably result in x^3 or more evaporation. Those clouds of superheated steam are going to be hit seconds later by another blaster bolt, resulting in some more debonding, and more heat pushing down to liquids to result in further evaporation.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Even if all it does is create massive storms, that can be hell on earth for those living in costal communities or on islands.. And even those inland will feel the effects.
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Melkor
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Location: Grants Pass Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Using Turbolasers and Ion Cannons to create massive storm systems, seems incredibly over complicated and insane. Why hasn't the Empire already done this? It fits perfect with the Tarkin Doctrine. |
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hey guys, I think you might be missing something about Star Wars, is space pulp. Heck yes, the Empire can boil off an ocean and not destroy the entire eco-system of that planet. It can steal a planers oceans as well. It can make the planet a living hell with massive dust storms. It can do whatever you want it to do and you don't have to worry about realism or justification to your players.
Now, if you're asking what are the real world repercussions of this action? Again, I mention things like, turbolasers, hyperspace, blaster gas, bacta healing, the Force, etc. Trying to apply real world physics to a fictional universe established as science-fiction pulp, seems to me, an exercise in futility let alone having to ask ones self, why?
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Because it is fun.
My rule is "Gamist in the streets, simulationist in the (design) sheets." IOW, do what seems cool and fun at the table, but in the between sessions s***, come up with thenwhys and wherefores, making as realistic a system as possible, without destroying the fun.
So, the Empire CAN destroy a planet's oceans, 'cause that's cool. How? What does it look like on the surface? What are the implications of this? Those are a different kind of fun. The kind that leans on it being SCIENCE fiction, even if at the table we're happy with science FICTION.
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