Changed Force Rules

[MrNexx]

So, I played around with these rules when I ran a game in college, and figured that, since we've been slow, I'd toss them out to be dissected and argued over. Nothing like a good bit of nerd rage to get the blood going, eh?

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Most fundamentally, the three "Force Skills" (Control, Sense, and Alter) are reconsidered as Attributes, with the various Force powers treated as skills beneath those powers. Some of this is already present in the rules; the first die of force skills is purchased with attribute dice, after all. To keep the nomenclature clearish, I'll stop calling them "Force Skills", but rather "Force Talents"; "Force Powers" will remain "Force Powers", though their acquisition is greatly changed.

The three Force Talents are treated, in many ways, as attributes. All powers underneath a single Force Talent are automatically available to someone with a rating in that Force Talent. If you have Alter, you can use Telekinesis; if you have Sense, you can use Magnify Senses. If you have Control, you can use Emptiness or Hibernation Trance or any Force Power based on Control. However, in being considered as attributes, Force Talents are more expensive to improve; 10 times the number before the D for each pip, with training time being one week per CP spent in training. Training time may be reduced with additional CP expenditure, as per attributes; 1 day less per additional CP invested, with a minimum of 1 week of training. At the end of training, a check is made, as with attributes, to determine if the improvement was possible. With a teacher, the new talent code is rolled in opposition to the the teacher's level in the talent, the teacher's force points, or the student's force points, whichever is best. Without a teacher, the new talent code may only be rolled in opposition to the character's force points. Unlike attributes, however, failing this check does not indicate that the Force Talent may never be improved, only that it may not be improved at this time; someone with unlimited CPs and unlimited time WILL eventually reach whatever level of Force Talent they wish to have, provided they have access to a teacher or have at least 1 force point (and an incredible level of luck).

The various force powers are treated as skills beneath their force Talents; someone with 3D in Control may roll 3D for any force power based solely on Control. Someone who wishes to improve in a force power needs only spend CPs as if improving a skill; CPs equal to the number before the D to improve a single pip, with a training time of one day per CP with a teacher, two days per CP without a teacher, and no training time if you used the power in the last adventure.

Multi-talent powers (Lightsaber Combat, Affect Mind, etc). are automatically known by anyone with skill in all the related force talents. However, as more complex skills, they are more expensive to improve, and more difficult to use. Multi-talent powers require a number of CPs equal to improve a power in all the related skills; someone with Control 3D+2, Sense 2D+1, and Alter 5D will have to pay 10 CP to improve that skill, and would then roll 4D, 2D+2, and 5D+1 against the respective difficulties. Training a multi-talent power that has not been used is the same as for normal power; one day per CP with a teacher, two days per CP without a teacher. However, multi-talent powers no longer require a multi-action penalty to use; while separate Control, Sense, and Alter rolls must be made for Affect Mind, it is considered a single action. Lightsaber Combat, in being kept up, only inflicts a single MAP on the user.

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As mentioned above, I used something similar to this with great effect in a campaign many years ago. Force use felt more natural, but becoming a force powerhouse required a far greater investment of CPs... fitting somewhat with Kreia/Darth Traya's assertion that Jedi, without the Force, have lost a great deal of their skill.
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[garhkal]

Interesting angle. I don't mind treating the force skills as attributes, but automatically knowing all force powers/getting a chance to use them is a little off.. Especially since imo that IS one of the main limiters for force users, Finding out what powers are out there, locating someone to teach them, then trying to get them to teach you..
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[MrNexx]

Part of it, garhk, is that the chance to use is likely to be a lot lower. Since Force Talents are treated and increased like attributes, someone who is heavily into Force use is going to be less adept at general skills... they will have either started with low stats to achieve decent Force Talents (an 18D race can have 2D in their attributes and wind up with 2D in each force talent!), or started more normally and had to pay out the wazoo for force talents. So, in general, force talent numbers will be much lower, and it will be frequently more economical to improve the powers you're going to use.

In a way, this creates LESS generality in force users. The old version, you improved your Control at a relatively small cost, and you got a Control power. Canon version is you start at 1D with 1 power. To get to 2D costs 3 more CP, and nets you three more powers, also all at 2D. Want them all at 3D? Just another 6 CP, and it will get you 3 more powers, all at 3D. My way, you start at 1D with a bunch of powers you can't use effectively. To get one of them to 2D requires 3 CP, and improves that one power. To get all of them to 2D requires spending 30 CP, and might not work.

Under my system, someone who wants to be a fantastic lightsaber duelist can get Control and Sense at 1D, then spend 2CP/die/pip to get up their Lightsaber Combat power, ignoring other aspects of the force. Under the old system, you get Control and Sense, pick up Lightsaber Combat as one of your powers, and improve Control and Alter at 1CP/die/pip each, getting more powers along the way... your quest to be the ultimate lightsaber duelist will inevitably make you a Jedi Master, not just really good at the lightsaber.
_________________
"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/

[garhkal]

3cp to get to 2d, is ONLY if you have found a master. Otherwise its double... And if self training like that, you ain't learning new powers.
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[MrNexx]

[dic1]

How about if you jest run them like attributes and skills.
You get one skill at +1 pip when you first purchase the attribute, Further skills must be learnt from a teacher and are improved individually.
e.g.
Control 2D+1
Enhance skill 3D+2, concentration 1D+1
this would allow force users to tailor their abilities more to suit their character concept.

[MrNexx]

[LegendaryExGamer]

Why not have a, singular Force Attribute and still retain the Control, Sense and Alter underneath as Advanced Skills that sometimes stack with the Attribute and sometimes they do not.

Because the Force is powerful, in our games we "charge" more for Force Sensitivity and Ability.

Force Sensitive = 1D of Starting Attributes
Force Attribute 1D = 2D of starting Attribute

With a series of potential Force Attribute caps listed after each based on initial investment. Advanced Skills are not capped.

I would be happy to share our rule book with anyone interested. I posed a tread about it under the House Rules section "Star Wars 3rd Edition". Already shot a copy of it over to the Guys at Shooting Womp Rats.

[garhkal]

How much does it take to pick up later in game? Cause with that pricy ness for starting with it, i can see most everyone taking the option of picking it up later.
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[LegendaryExGamer]

It's supposed to be expensive. Force Attribute is just like any other attribute. 10x the cost of the D Code.

The Force Abilities of Control, Sense & Alter are Advanced Skills, beginning at 1D for 10 points and then raising at double cost thereafter. If you have a training medium, a master or something of the like they raise as if they were skills. One can argue that Control, Sense & Alter can be acquired for either 5 points each or awarded if you had tutelage. So, anyone wanting this has to develop a back story... It's amazing how hard it is to get a character background out of people these days!

So, for example, if you simply purchase Force Sensitivity for the investment of 1D of regular attributes you're looking at a capped Force Attribute:
1D of Attribute: Force Sensitive, 2D+2 Potential
2D of Attribute: 1D Attribute, 3D+2 Potential
3D of Attribute: 2D Attribute, 4D+2 Potential
4D of Attribute: 3D Attribute, 5D+2 Potential
5D of Attribute: 4D Attribute, 6D+2 Potential
6D of Attribute: 5D Attribute, 7D+2 Potential

At a base level Force Attribute allows the Jedi to utilize some inherent powers like Enhance Attribute, Lightsaber Combat (more on that in a second) and Receptive Telepathy.

Lightsaber Combat is "Inherent" thus the Attribute D Code is your bonus to Hit and Damage. So a Jedi can Full Parry with the base attunement with the weapon. The skill Lightsaber Combat is now called Advanced Melee Combat, which triggers with 2 skills (Control & Sense) and then adds Control to the Damage and Sense to Skill. It can be kept up for 1 free action after the round it is activated (so you can actually full parry with it).

Send me a PM and I will shoot you the link to the sorta current document I have up. We are actively tweaking it, almost constantly. I have it on Google Drive as it's about 50 megs as a PDF.

[MrNexx]

[LegendaryExGamer]

I totally agree with what you're saying. But, the way we play and look at the rules is that they are guidelines.

Honestly, the easiest example of this would be to pick a power and specialize in it. I think generating a sub skill dice pool off Control, Sense or Alter is a bit much. It would be better to develop "perks" over time with certain characters who develop abilities to a higher level. I even included a section for stuff like that on the character sheet I generated for our games, using nbos character generator.

We use force powers as skills already. If you don't possess a power and want to attempt one, it's considered "unskilled". GM discretion, but typically elevates the difficulty level by one per test.

We don't make Jedi pay for those powers anymore, if you're playing a Jedi you're already paying plenty as it is. You get power slots for every pip you have in Control, Sense and Alter. You simply need training, a holochron, jedi memoirs, whatever and you can pickup the abilities. if you do so on the fly, its costs 5 character points to buy one. If you don't have enough "slots" it costs 5 character points to acquire another.

Paying to have force sensitivity and attribute is a nod back to the old ways. You had to pull starting attribute dice to have Control Sense and Alter. I'm still on the fence about making Control, Sense and Alter double cost without a training medium... but the traditional Jedi path is the most powerful. Jedi are nasty, and you should pay for it.

I'm not here to argue, shoot me a PM and I will send you the link to our 138 page game manual. That way you will know where I'm coming from and I will be happy another D6 gamer gave it a look.

[Ninja-Bear]

I have a side question about To to Effect. Certain powers by RAW can take up to a minute to use. Do you disregard that and make all use one combat round?

[MrNexx]

[Error]

I like Force skills as attributes, but I don't like that you automatically gain whatever is under them when you buy into the attribute.

In my Open D6 sword & sorcery game (I called it Legends of the Blade, or LotB for short), all beings begin the game with six attributes that are common to all beings (Dexterity, Brawn, Integrity [your "save" or "resist" rolls], Wisdom, Intellect, and Perception). Each character may "buy" other attributes according to the character they want to design, and they available attributes are something like:

Guile (thieves and rogues)
Magic (wizards and mages)
Faith (paladins and clerics, auras)
Crafting (dwarves and smiths, repairs)
Martial Arts (monks, ninjas, etc)
Ranged Combat (archers and thrown weapons)
Acumen (melee combat)
Cunning (scouts and rangers)

Let's take the Magic attribute for example. The following are skills that might be found under the Magic attribute:

Magic
Study (to learn spells)
Arcane (general magic knowledge and spell effectiveness)
Sorcery (elemental damage spells)
Enchantment (temporary [or permanent, later on] buffs on people or items)
Witchcraft (debuffs and curses, folk medicine)
Conjure (self-explanatory)
Necromancy (acid spells and raising of the dead)
Control (how well you can control your summoned guy(s), plus a TON of other uses; it is the "to hit" roll on some spells)
Resistance (to magic)

This allows people to choose a class, no class, or a blend of classes. I may even decrease the original six attributes to five so there is a blank space for one of the above-named attributes.

I know this is only tangentially related to your original post but I thought of it because there is MASSIVE unexplored design space in D6 SW, and some of it is in the Force skills area. Perhaps each of your attributes Control, Sense, and Alter could have the following under each:

Learn (to pick up new Force powers)
Use (what Control, Sense, and Alter do now)
Resist (pretty self-explanatory)
Concentrate (if someone tries to disrupt something that is going to take a few rounds to pull off)
Potency (strength of attack or defense)

This is just a brainstorm of course, and may be waaay further away than what you're going for.

Such an alteration of the game rules would of course would require you to re-word some (most) Force powers so that the appropriate DC's are used for their appropriate applications.

Major kudos on the idea!
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