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recoveringgeek
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:19 pm    Post subject: Help me The Rancor Pit, you're my only hope! Reply with quote

The Premise:
Long time gamer here. I own a copy of Star Wars: The Role-Playing Game by West End Games that actually says First Edition Printing inside.

I've been lurking The Rancor Pit for years for the nostalgia, presuming that I'd never play d6 Star Wars again.

Now our tabletop group is swinging back to a Star Wars campaign. Pre-Episode 7 will be the setting, and the last Star Wars Campaign I ran for them several years ago was very successful, well loved by the table, and we used Saga Edition, as published by Wizards of the Coast.

The Problem:
Similar to "New" Players (I blame millenials)... my table heavily favours d20. We play Pathfinder pretty faithfully, it works well for our many fantasy Campaigns and even Modern and off-shoot settings.

We all loathe Saga Edition for the rules bloat, horrible spread of rules and character advancement details throughout multiple books. Yes, there are some pretty well designed community tools, but the Pathfinder SRD has spoiled us for years, for ease of reference and use at the game table.

However, these are d20 players, they like specialization. When I initially promoted d6, (none of them have ever played it) I talked about the lack of restrictions, that starting characters can (attempt) do almost anything, provided the difficulty wasn't too high.

That was actually a turn-off for them. They fear all the player characters having a "sameness" to them. That the inability to "build" a unique character won't give them a level of optimization that is appealing to them.

That said, they're willing to give it a shot.

The Proposal:
I need your help. I estimate is been about... sixteen or seventeen years since I ran a meaningful, ongoing d6 Campaign. I've forgotten way more than I ever remembered.

I'm going to use the wonderful Star Wars R.E.U.P. book as my base. I'm going to bring them some pre-generated characters, and we're going to run through some mock encounters, social, combat, maybe a vehicle chase scene. This is to introduce them to the rules, and as a primer for myself.

Here is where I need your help. What does d6 do really well, and how do I showcase that? What are the rules that have turned off your players (or new players) in the past? What do I need to remember about d6 combat, especially Rules-As-Written to make it a fun experience for everyone?

I know how to run a Star Wars Camapaign. I've been doing that for just shy of thirty years. How I run a great d6 Campaign (again)?

Thank you in advance for your reply.

p.s. This isn't a thread to boast about d6 or bash d20. This is about running a d6 game mechanically, and how to introduce it to an entire table of experienced (but hesitant) gamers.
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The Brain
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing to emphasis is that they will still be able to specialize the characters they just won't be completely useless outside of their specialties. E.g. the party just lost the cleric well we can still use a basic medpac to avoid dieing as opposed to the D20 scenario where is drop everything to run back to town to get him raised or we all die when the HP tank runs dry. Since your using REUP they will have the ability to buy advantages and disadvantages to customize/specialized even further and if thats not all you can delve into the Advantage/Disadvantage section of D6 Space. I've yet to see SW D6 characters develop into dull clones of each other character points that have to be split between advancement and not dieing just never allowed that.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO of course..

Things D6 does well where other systems fall flat..
Allows anyone to attempt anything, even stuff "not in class/archtype".

You can start out as something, and turn into something else.. IE someone goes with the 'gambler' template but becomes instead a great tactician and combat leader, or someone takes the brash pilot (great mechanical), but rather than being a fighter pilot wiz, becomes a "transporter" like character on the ground..


Things i feel it doesn't do well..
Balances things out. As you start getting pcs higher up in skill, inevitably the dm will do the same for the opposition, but just cause PC A through D have all earned and spent 120cp let's say, does not mean all will be good in combat, so what will be a 'challenging opponent' for player C and D in that group, might be overwhelming for character A and B..
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if your going with pregens you can "buff" them out a bit. Also I would suggest using some of the species with call special abilities. Also, make up some interesting Story Arcs with some bonuses for the players. Toss in a few skill specializations as well as buff them out with some extra Character Points they can spend to augment rolls or for soak rolls. Last thing, give them some cool equipment.
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recoveringgeek
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
Well if your going with pregens you can "buff" them out a bit.


Thanks shootingwomprats.

To be clear, the pre-generated characters are simply to take the System for a ride.

We'll do proper character generation from scratch provided the entire table doesn't mutiny after seeing the mechanics of the system in action.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

recoveringgeek wrote:
shootingwomprats wrote:
Well if your going with pregens you can "buff" them out a bit.


Thanks shootingwomprats.

To be clear, the pre-generated characters are simply to take the System for a ride.

We'll do proper character generation from scratch provided the entire table doesn't mutiny after seeing the mechanics of the system in action.


I cannot agree more with shootingwomprats here. You want to load them out with lots of cool stuff to show just how much the system can actually do. Especially since they're just going to test drive the system; you can actually go a lot farther out there in stacked cool stuff than you might in a regular campaign.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, you want to showcase Star Wars in general, and the system specifically. Which means that railroading is fair game.

Immediately, I think that you could have a bulk transporter disabled by raiders, and your table is a squad of hotshot pilots and rescue crew.

One storytelling technique that is used sometimes in Star Wars, is the 'cut scene'. It's exactly what it says on the tin, and is usually not used in other systems and settings. This can be used to accelerate development of the situation, and can help with the 'oh I need to go shopping' that can bog down a table in other settings.

For Star Wars, it's usually 'strap the blaster on your hip and go', it's not 'oh I need an adventurer's pack, a belt, a fanny pack, and a sunrod', which the cut scene admirably captures.

A sample run-through might be two or three combat encounters, a couple of skill encounters, and a social interaction or two. With pregenerated characters, that should be plenty for the usual four-five hour session.

Scene 1: Briefing room. Your guys are SAR combat pilots, getting briefed by some Mon Calamari captain.

"We will shortly drop out of hyperspace. Your mission is to take and defend an incapacitated transport. Opposition is expected to be light to medium, and the pirates' mothership will likely try to deny us a fight. You will then have to board the transport, free the crew, re-enable critical systems, and babysit it while it jumps to (some nearby system)."

This is a cut scene, and some interaction. It will help with the familiarization of the players with their characters. If their characters have a 'capsule' on how they behave, it can help with the roleplaying as well. Give 'em a couple of heavy fighters (Y-Wings), a couple of fast fighters (A-Wings), and one or two medium fighters (X-Wings), perhaps with missiles on loadouts. Give 'em a tactical display, and the ability to pair up and plan an attack. This is the briefing room; you want them to feel as if they're part of the "I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 at home" scene.

Scene 2: Attack on the pirates

You want to give the Star Wars experience of a trench run, or of fighting a larger ship. Use some strewn cargo modules as 'asteroids', and a bulk cargo ship as a more or less static obstacle. One boarding vessel or two on the hull of the cargo ship, some fighters swarming around the cargo ship, and some fighters defending the pirates mothership as it is preparing to withdraw (but at the same time want as much cargo as possible). Perhaps some of the fighters are towing cargo modules.

Miniatures, for instance Micro Machines or Rebel Assault, can help immersion on this stage immensely.

Scene 3: Boarding the vessel

a) Repair

b) Combat

You want the players to board the cargo ship. They know there's pirates here. Part "Alien" and part Star Wars ANH (the boarding, but in reverse), you want to play up stuff that's damaged, emergency lighting, and scuttling noises. Perhaps the pirates brought some of their pets with them - Nek dogs, for instance - or perhaps there's crew somewhere.

Skill rolls to enable internal sensors, to lock down reactor leaks, to find cargo manifests, to track down doors closing and opening (to follow the pirates), and to find locked doors (to find the crew). Medical rolls to help them stabilize. Perhaps re-enable internal gravity, get power, and so on.

And then parlay and possibly combat - give the raider crew some offers they can't turn down, perhaps after blasting some of their more hard core crew, and give the option to have kangaroo courts for the pirates if they've spaced the crew or something. For some reason, the whole judge-jury-executioner schtick is something that's sure to please my players.

Scene 4: Bragging in the ship's bar

You want them to have some celebration. Put on the cantina band in the background, some bragging, and official letters of commendation (or kudos paid to them by officers). If everything went particularly well, allow them to celebrate. If they did egregious mistakes, have a commander icily ask them to explain their actions (obviously, the cantina band isn't appropriate in this case).

---

So, something like that might suffice to whet their appetite for more Star Wars - obviously this is just a rough outline, and you should know better what your table likes and not than what I do.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JironGhrad wrote:
recoveringgeek wrote:
shootingwomprats wrote:
Well if your going with pregens you can "buff" them out a bit.


Thanks shootingwomprats.

To be clear, the pre-generated characters are simply to take the System for a ride.

We'll do proper character generation from scratch provided the entire table doesn't mutiny after seeing the mechanics of the system in action.


I cannot agree more with shootingwomprats here. You want to load them out with lots of cool stuff to show just how much the system can actually do. Especially since they're just going to test drive the system; you can actually go a lot farther out there in stacked cool stuff than you might in a regular campaign.


I actually disagree. Preloading them up with all sorts of cool stuff might work to get them interested, but it might also serve to spoil them, when it comes time to make up proper characters and play since they no longer have all those specials..

Zarn wrote:
In my opinion, you want to showcase Star Wars in general, and the system specifically. Which means that railroading is fair game.

Immediately, I think that you could have a bulk transporter disabled by raiders, and your table is a squad of hotshot pilots and rescue crew.

One storytelling technique that is used sometimes in Star Wars, is the 'cut scene'. It's exactly what it says on the tin, and is usually not used in other systems and settings. This can be used to accelerate development of the situation, and can help with the 'oh I need to go shopping' that can bog down a table in other settings.

For Star Wars, it's usually 'strap the blaster on your hip and go', it's not 'oh I need an adventurer's pack, a belt, a fanny pack, and a sunrod', which the cut scene admirably captures.

A sample run-through might be two or three combat encounters, a couple of skill encounters, and a social interaction or two. With pregenerated characters, that should be plenty for the usual four-five hour session.

Scene 1: Briefing room. Your guys are SAR combat pilots, getting briefed by some Mon Calamari captain.

"We will shortly drop out of hyperspace. Your mission is to take and defend an incapacitated transport. Opposition is expected to be light to medium, and the pirates' mothership will likely try to deny us a fight. You will then have to board the transport, free the crew, re-enable critical systems, and babysit it while it jumps to (some nearby system)."

This is a cut scene, and some interaction. It will help with the familiarization of the players with their characters. If their characters have a 'capsule' on how they behave, it can help with the roleplaying as well. Give 'em a couple of heavy fighters (Y-Wings), a couple of fast fighters (A-Wings), and one or two medium fighters (X-Wings), perhaps with missiles on loadouts. Give 'em a tactical display, and the ability to pair up and plan an attack. This is the briefing room; you want them to feel as if they're part of the "I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 at home" scene.

Scene 2: Attack on the pirates

You want to give the Star Wars experience of a trench run, or of fighting a larger ship. Use some strewn cargo modules as 'asteroids', and a bulk cargo ship as a more or less static obstacle. One boarding vessel or two on the hull of the cargo ship, some fighters swarming around the cargo ship, and some fighters defending the pirates mothership as it is preparing to withdraw (but at the same time want as much cargo as possible). Perhaps some of the fighters are towing cargo modules.

Miniatures, for instance Micro Machines or Rebel Assault, can help immersion on this stage immensely.

Scene 3: Boarding the vessel

a) Repair

b) Combat

You want the players to board the cargo ship. They know there's pirates here. Part "Alien" and part Star Wars ANH (the boarding, but in reverse), you want to play up stuff that's damaged, emergency lighting, and scuttling noises. Perhaps the pirates brought some of their pets with them - Nek dogs, for instance - or perhaps there's crew somewhere.

Skill rolls to enable internal sensors, to lock down reactor leaks, to find cargo manifests, to track down doors closing and opening (to follow the pirates), and to find locked doors (to find the crew). Medical rolls to help them stabilize. Perhaps re-enable internal gravity, get power, and so on.

And then parlay and possibly combat - give the raider crew some offers they can't turn down, perhaps after blasting some of their more hard core crew, and give the option to have kangaroo courts for the pirates if they've spaced the crew or something. For some reason, the whole judge-jury-executioner schtick is something that's sure to please my players.

Scene 4: Bragging in the ship's bar

You want them to have some celebration. Put on the cantina band in the background, some bragging, and official letters of commendation (or kudos paid to them by officers). If everything went particularly well, allow them to celebrate. If they did egregious mistakes, have a commander icily ask them to explain their actions (obviously, the cantina band isn't appropriate in this case).

---

So, something like that might suffice to whet their appetite for more Star Wars - obviously this is just a rough outline, and you should know better what your table likes and not than what I do.


To expand on that, add in say a force vision/side bar, so that force sensitives (possibly only force users) may get an "in game" hint of whats potentially to come or what has already transpired but they were not there for, and use a 'interlude/cut scene' that is more of an out of character info, sort of like how in some tv shows/films we get a brief snip from the main heroes to the bad guy or his henchmen doing something.

Both are great ways to immerse the characters AND players into the game.

As for starting out, do up a script, so that every player has a line or three, that sorts of help set the stage for whats to come..
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recoveringgeek
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Help me The Rancor Pit, you're my only hope! Reply with quote

Thank you to everyone who has replied so far.

I feel like I need to focus the discussion on my quote below;

recoveringgeek wrote:
The Premise:
Here is where I need your help. What does d6 do really well, and how do I showcase that? What are the rules that have turned off your players (or new players) in the past? What do I need to remember about d6 combat, especially Rules-As-Written to make it a fun experience for everyone?


I was looking for your experiences running the system mechanically. It's been double digit years since I ran it. My table is hesitant that they will enjoy a d6 System because of the lack of very things we don't miss. Classes, Levels, Feats, Talents.

I wanted your advice on how to showcase the things that make the d6 System run well, and remain fun.

If you can articulate that for me.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Show them, that you can do a lot by just thinking of what you want, asking what skill to roll and beating a 'set difficulty'..
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could set the stage for the transition to no levels by asking them what level they are for normal tasks, like opening the fridge and asking them to roll for the non-class cooking skill when making sandwiches.

Puts the whole stupidity of levels and non-class skills into perspective.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JironGhrad wrote:
You could set the stage for the transition to no levels by asking them what level they are for normal tasks, like opening the fridge and asking them to roll for the non-class cooking skill when making sandwiches.

Puts the whole stupidity of levels and non-class skills into perspective.

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recoveringgeek
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been perusing my collection of fan-made handouts and rules summaries that I must have downloaded in hopes of one day running or playing d6 again.

I'm certain I found many of these while lurking The Rancor Pit.

Is there a link to a shared drive where someone has hosted these files? I have a great New Player handout, player information sheet. I'm just curious if there was anything else I missed...
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JironGhrad wrote:
You could set the stage for the transition to no levels by asking them what level they are for normal tasks, like opening the fridge and asking them to roll for the non-class cooking skill when making sandwiches.

Puts the whole stupidity of levels and non-class skills into perspective.


Laughing

recoveringgeek wrote:
I've been perusing my collection of fan-made handouts and rules summaries that I must have downloaded in hopes of one day running or playing d6 again.

I'm certain I found many of these while lurking The Rancor Pit.

Is there a link to a shared drive where someone has hosted these files? I have a great New Player handout, player information sheet. I'm just curious if there was anything else I missed...


I've made a few available before, but it's probably easier to just give you links here, rather than trying to look them up again.

Combat Basics

Basic Rules

D6 Basic Rules

Game Intro

Master Skills List

Player's Information

Note that I didn't make any of these; they're just ones I've picked up over the years.
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recoveringgeek
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sincere thanks DougRed4, I had some of those already.

Our first session went well, they connected with the rules better than I thought they would, and the rules for Specialization at character creation alleviated some of their concerns about "sameness".

I have a couple of rules questions that came up during our mock combat;

Movement

In the REUP PDF, page 78;

Quote:
After every character has taken his/her first action, the characters on the first side take their second actions.


In the REUP, page 80-81;

Quote:
Actions That Take Time...

Move: Maneuver 51% of the character’s Move or more around
the area.


In the REUP, page 107

Quote:
Character Movement

Moving is an action, just like firing a blaster or dodging an attack.


The scenario presented to me by my players was the following;

A Melee attacker declares two Actions.
Defender declares two Actions.

First Action: Melee attacker declares a Move, and moves to melee range.
First Action: Defender declares a Move, and moves out of melee range.
Second Action: Melee attacker declares a Move, and moves (again) to melee range.
Second Action: Defender declares a Move, and moves out of melee range.

Does a Move Action count as an "action"? Does this prevent melee-based combat characters from being as effective in combat? Since a defender could always choose to use an available Action to move away, provided they still had an Action available.

Can you move and attack on the same Action, however you still incur a -1D Multiple Action penalty?

Combat

In the REUP, page 96;

Quote:
Combat Options

Hit Locations
Head
Difficulty Modifier +1D
Damage Modifier +12


This seems like a really easy way to add +12 damage to every attack. The +1D modifier to the difficulty isn't very hard to overcome.

Uisng Rules-As-Written, is this always available as an attack option? We couldn't find anything regarding situational modifiers, when you couldn't choose to make a called shot for the head every round.
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