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Battle drills
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:37 am    Post subject: Battle drills Reply with quote

In my talents and techniques list, I have


Battle Drill
Learn DC 10 Skill: Tactics
If the user is working with others who have this same technique, they can all benefit from the highest initiative roll amongst them.


Now this is of particular use to a group because I normally use individual initiative.

The idea is that everyone in the group has drilled and drilled their immediate actions in a specific situation so that they all work together as one...a well oiled machine as it were. No one needs to be told or even think about what to do...everyone just reacts. '

Battle drill:"A collective action rapidly executed without applying a deliberate decision-making process".'

I'm looking at sub-dividing it into specific battle drills; In order to benefit, each member would need to have trained in that specific drill.

What do you guys see as being on the list of Star Wars battle drills? What sorts of actions could characters take when participating in each drill?

A couple off the top:

React to Enemy fire: Characters can fire weapons, seek cover, move, locate enemy and/or communicate.

Room entry/ clearing: Characters can fire weapons, throw grenades, ram doors, use explosives and/or slice electronic locks
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any of the various Roman or Hoplite maneuvers might work like that. I believe the Paksenarrion books go into detail about combined maneuvers with short sword and shield. The Roman legions are perhaps most famous for their shield and spear formations.

Leapfrogging in pairs or in teams (non-moving members use covering fire while one runs to a new position; then that member opens covering fire while the hindmost member runs forward to a new position) might also work well.

A breaching stack (SWAT style) of troopers peeling off the stack to quickly control an area during a breach might be a good pattern for a battle drill or two.

I feel the Royal Guard might have some team battle drills with Force pikes as well. You might have Coruscant shocktroopers also have extensive melee drills as they deploy in urban areas, as well as Senate Guard and Senate Commandos (mostly because the Senate Guard deploy close to VIPs; therefore stray shots are ... bad).
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
Any of the various Roman or Hoplite maneuvers might work like that. I believe the Paksenarrion books go into detail about combined maneuvers with short sword and shield. The Roman legions are perhaps most famous for their shield and spear formations.

Leapfrogging in pairs or in teams (non-moving members use covering fire while one runs to a new position; then that member opens covering fire while the hindmost member runs forward to a new position) might also work well.

A breaching stack (SWAT style) of troopers peeling off the stack to quickly control an area during a breach might be a good pattern for a battle drill or two.

I feel the Royal Guard might have some team battle drills with Force pikes as well. You might have Coruscant shocktroopers also have extensive melee drills as they deploy in urban areas, as well as Senate Guard and Senate Commandos (mostly because the Senate Guard deploy close to VIPs; therefore stray shots are ... bad).


I think the breaching stack can be placed under the room entry category...there are lots of different methods but they generally try to accomplish the same thing.

I hadn't even considered classic melee formation fighting...but in Star Wars it's certainly valid!

The leapfrogging is definitely one. I'll likely fold it in as an 'Assault Drill' which will allow firing, moving, and throwing (for grenades).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC, the first chapter of Rules of Engagement covered some of the basics of small unit movement, but I'm pretty sure they never got to the point of actually making rules for them.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For react to enemy fire, you have jear ambush and far ambush. Near ambush is 50m or less (inside grenade range) which means everyone starts shooting immediately while advancing on the enemy. Don't stop shooting till all enemies are caput.

Far ambush is outside 50m, and the group seeks cover and returns fire, and is divided into two elements. 1 keeps shooting well-aimed shots from good cover. 2 maneuvers as stealthily as possible to a flanking position and sweeps through the enemy position (friendlies shift fire so as not to hit each other).

Of course, in a situation lile this, if you want to differentiate between various battle drills, you'll need rules for each specific one.... otherwise, you're fine with jus using your basic same initiative beneefit to represent the enhanced coordination.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
For react to enemy fire, you have jear ambush and far ambush. Near ambush is 50m or less (inside grenade range) which means everyone starts shooting immediately while advancing on the enemy. Don't stop shooting till all enemies are caput.

Far ambush is outside 50m, and the group seeks cover and returns fire, and is divided into two elements. 1 keeps shooting well-aimed shots from good cover. 2 maneuvers as stealthily as possible to a flanking position and sweeps through the enemy position (friendlies shift fire so as not to hit each other).

Of course, in a situation lile this, if you want to differentiate between various battle drills, you'll need rules for each specific one.... otherwise, you're fine with jus using your basic same initiative beneefit to represent the enhanced coordination.


Agreed. I think the drills for ambush are pretty standard across NATO; in game terms what sort of actions would you be permitted to take while participating in the drill?

There is a clear benefit to being part of the drill; a squad of basic troops might have initiative skill of 2d. One of the squad, lkely an NCO might have a 5d in initiative.

When the ambush is triggered, everyone rolls...most of the troops get around 7 or so. But sarge gets around 22 or so; "AMBUSH LEFT!"
and everyone reacts immediately at 22 rather than their conscious thoughts would normally allow at around initiative roll of 7.
The restriction being in order to take advantage of the benefit they can only take actions that fit into that battle drill; without getting into too many specifics.

So in an ambush...firing would be allowed...moving would be allowed...but something like using the commlink wouldn't be covered. If a player wanted to do that, they'd have to use their own initiative roll.

So, what kind of actions would be part of the typical react to close ambush drill?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would have to generate a list of 'standard' actions for each drill type..

Such as for our drills we had all the time when i was navy..

Man over board.. Everone roust out of bed (if they are there), and make your way as quickly as possible going up and forward on one side of the ship, down and aft on the other, to your mustering point. The first person in the shop, gets a full muster list, kept on a clipboard near one of the phones (which should be kept up to date with people at school, off ship for medical issues, on leave etc)..
He marks everyone as present or not, and when he gets a full list, he calls into a central mustering area. No one goes away till the drill is called off.

General quarters. Similar to above you get out of bed or away from where you are working to get to your battle stations site. Get into full dress for battle (for us it was mask on side of hip, flash head gear and gloves on, and if needed, sound powered phone by side, in front of a battle damage board). Rodger up for where you are and if one of the DC BDB operators, you keep track of what happens in your zone, reporting it on to Damage control central.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
You would have to generate a list of 'standard' actions for each drill type..

Such as for our drills we had all the time when i was navy..

Man over board.. Everone roust out of bed (if they are there), and make your way as quickly as possible going up and forward on one side of the ship, down and aft on the other, to your mustering point. The first person in the shop, gets a full muster list, kept on a clipboard near one of the phones (which should be kept up to date with people at school, off ship for medical issues, on leave etc)..
He marks everyone as present or not, and when he gets a full list, he calls into a central mustering area. No one goes away till the drill is called off.

General quarters. Similar to above you get out of bed or away from where you are working to get to your battle stations site. Get into full dress for battle (for us it was mask on side of hip, flash head gear and gloves on, and if needed, sound powered phone by side, in front of a battle damage board). Rodger up for where you are and if one of the DC BDB operators, you keep track of what happens in your zone, reporting it on to Damage control central.


You know, I hadn't even thought of naval drills...that betrays my army background...but you are totally right. The crew of a ship could benefit from a quick reaction technique under very specific circumstances.

I'm starting to wonder though whether it's worth listing the possible actions, since they are so context-specific. There are only so many general actions; shoot, move, communicate, operate a device...can pretty much sum it up for all of them in broad-strokes.

I now think it might be best to do what you have done: Name the drill and then a brief description of what it entails. That way leave the GM to decide whether he would allow a player action be part of the drill.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infantry Based

Room entry drill:
Typically involves a stack of assault entry personnel, as well as a demolition member or other Breach man. Room is breached and the stack goes in, firing into their assigned arcs, until the room is clear.

Clearing drill:
Involves tactically moving through a defined area, covering each other with overlapping arcs, for all-round defense and engaging targets as they appear.

Assault drill:
Fire teams move by pairs, covering and moving until they reach the objective. The target is elminated with grenades and/or close range fire ie close combat.

Conduct Ambush drill:
Members set up as three hidden teams along one side of the enemy route; the support group pours maximum firepower into the enemy when they appear for several rounds;
The assault group closes in and dispatches remaining combatants once the support fire is done and takes prisoners or important articles and demolishes enemy equipment;
The cut-off group which observes the route in front of and behind the ambush to warn of further enemy approach, and to prevent reinforcements from arriving or enemy from escaping.


Counter-Ambush drill:

The members are drilled to pour maximum firepower into the enemy ambushers; to assault if possible, or withdraw if necessary.

Conduct Flanking drill:
The members split into two spontaneous groups. The Support group with the heaviest weapons pins down the enemy with maximum firepower, while the assault group stealthfully but rapidly moves around to the side of the enemy position and then closes in to attack the enemy from an unexpected direction at close range.

Embark/Disembark drill:
Used for members to rapidly mount or dismount a vehicle, each knowing his position and duty.

Minefield drill:
Used when members discover they have entered a minefield. Involves providing local security, and clearing a safe route as well as first aid for any casualties.

Artillery drill:
Used when members come under artillery or orbital fire. The clones make a maximum sprint to adequate cover, or in the direction of the fire's origin in order to get out of the blast area, at the commander's direction.


Engagement drill:
The members upon detecting the enemy get into the best possible firing positions and formation (typically a line) and use accurate fire to pin down the enemy, keep them from advancing and if possible eliminate the enemy at range.


Fighting withdrawl drill:
An organized retreat from a battle while under attack. Two groups alternate, one covering and supressing enemy fire the other moving rapidly away from the enemy for a distance, and then reversing roles, until no long under enemy fire. Includes the retrieval or destruction of sensitive materials.


Snatch drill/ Anti-sentry drill:
The members stealthfully move up on an unsuspecting enemy. Each member or pair of members covers one enemy. They simultaneously take down the enemy with silence and efficiency. The enemy is either dispatched or captured.


Anti airspeeder drill:
The members are focused on a single flying target. They estimate speed and heading and beging rapid firing ahead of the craft en masse in order to make the enemy fly into and through the combined fire.

Anti-vehicle drill:
Light troops not specifically equipped to deal with tanks and armored vehicles move in close and attempt to stay in the enemy's blind spots. Well-placed grenades and concentrated fire on weak points can hinder, harass and damage if not destroy the enemy.

Eliminate fortification/ Anti-bunker drill:
Members take covered positions upon encountering a fortified position and deliver accurate suppressive fire; members maneuver to a flank, close and destroy the enemy occupying the position with well placed close combat/ grenades.

Obstacle crossing drill:
Members are trained to negotiate nearly any obstacle in their way. (An open road, a fence line, a creek) The drill ensures quick and efficient movement, and the maintaining of local security so that the may instantly engage any enemy that appears.

Breach and boarding drill:
Members are in space-walk or boarding craft. They cut through an enemy ship's hull and rapidly fire and move to take positions aboard the vessel.



Space Ship based

General Quarters
Members react to alert and move at most efficient rate to appropriate battle stations, conducting assigned tasks to make the ship battle-ready.

Abandon Ship
Members react to the signal and move at most efficient rate to the escape pods, while ensuring the maximum survival of other members.

Repel Boarders
Members react to the signal to locate the position, communicate with other members of any enemy incursion, take up covered fighting positions and deliver fire at enemy boarders.



.....more??
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice rundown, though some of those seem almost like duplicates of one another (or very similar)..
You might also wish to 'label' what skill(s) would be under said drill..

Such as
Minefield drill:
Used when members discover they have entered a minefield. Involves providing local security, and clearing a safe route as well as first aid for any casualties.

Skills covered - Survival, Tactics, Search, Sensors.

Conduct Ambush drill:
Members set up as three hidden teams along one side of the enemy route; the support group pours maximum firepower into the enemy when they appear for several rounds;
The assault group closes in and dispatches remaining combatants once the support fire is done and takes prisoners or important articles and demolishes enemy equipment;
The cut-off group which observes the route in front of and behind the ambush to warn of further enemy approach, and to prevent reinforcements from arriving or enemy from escaping.

Skills covered - Stealth, Search, Blaster (or missile weapons/firearms/grenades), Tactics
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Nice rundown, though some of those seem almost like duplicates of one another (or very similar)..
You might also wish to 'label' what skill(s) would be under said drill..

Such as
Minefield drill:
Used when members discover they have entered a minefield. Involves providing local security, and clearing a safe route as well as first aid for any casualties.

Skills covered - Survival, Tactics, Search, Sensors.

Conduct Ambush drill:
Members set up as three hidden teams along one side of the enemy route; the support group pours maximum firepower into the enemy when they appear for several rounds;
The assault group closes in and dispatches remaining combatants once the support fire is done and takes prisoners or important articles and demolishes enemy equipment;
The cut-off group which observes the route in front of and behind the ambush to warn of further enemy approach, and to prevent reinforcements from arriving or enemy from escaping.

Skills covered - Stealth, Search, Blaster (or missile weapons/firearms/grenades), Tactics


Yeah, that was my original intent.

But thinking about it, (see above) I realized it'd probably be better to leave it in the GM's judgment since the way of doing a lot of the drills are going to depend on who it is, how they were trained, what equipment is standard for them, how many people are involved in the drill and what the conditions of the environment are.

In the end, there are only so many basic types of actions, like musical notes. It's how you combine them that makes them unique.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another option could be to just apply little bonuses to specific actions if all members participating know that drill.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sort of like

Group has drilled it for 4 months or less.. All applicable skills +1, +2 to group initiative. -2 to skill rolls that are NOT covered in the drill skill list.

Group has drilled on it for 4-7 months, +2 to all applicable skills, and +1d to group init. -1d to skill rolls not covered.

Group has drilled on it for longer than 7 months, +1d to all applicable skills and +1d+1 to group initiative. -1d+1 to skill rolls not covered.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm.

Looking at the list of battle drills I have assembled (And please any suggestions for more!)

What would be the skills for each?






When I started trying to list some for each, that's when I realized the actual skills are nearly all the same. It's the context in which they are used is what is different. Which is why I think I'm going to judge on a case by case basis using the battle drill description as a logical guide.

If players want to petition their action as part of their drill then they can make a case. Of course the BEST case is to see them role-play their drill practice using said skills.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Sort of like

Group has drilled it for 4 months or less.. All applicable skills +1, +2 to group initiative. -2 to skill rolls that are NOT covered in the drill skill list.

Group has drilled on it for 4-7 months, +2 to all applicable skills, and +1d to group init. -1d to skill rolls not covered.

Group has drilled on it for longer than 7 months, +1d to all applicable skills and +1d+1 to group initiative. -1d+1 to skill rolls not covered.


This is an interesting development. But again, I'm not sure I want a concrete list of skills. Anything judged by GM or with a successful player petition i think would qualify.
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