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Inquisitor1138
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 Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:37 pm Post subject: Ebon Hawk & Millennium Falcon sizes & issues |
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With little entertainment w/my computer kaput, i have been dusting off KotORII: TSL.
I measured the Ebon Hawk's interior, roughly, using character model as a measuring stick. This gave me internal space ≈42 meters long, 40 meters wide, and 4-5 meters high, varying by section.
So who thought 24m was a good ship length? LOL...
Last edited by Inquisitor1138 on Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Whill
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Maybe they were dyslexic and the 42 became 24? |
Possibly.
Though there is the hull thickness and engines' length to consider, which would seem to make the external length about 43 or 44 meters overall. I had considered 45 meters as an upper limit, but discarded it after taking advantage of the larger landing area on Dantooine to observe the ship's hull & engines' details as i made a circuit around the ship. An overall length of 45 meters is still possible, it is just less likely in my opinion, but i must concede my estimate of how thick the aft hull is could be off.
I will likely try taking a better look at the topside to get a better idea of the engines' lengths then compare that to what i see in the interior.
As to what this has to do with the Millennium Falcon, this realization about the Ebon Hawk's true size, got me thinking about the Falcon.
For nearly three decades i had taken WEG's stated length for the Falcon of 26.7 meters as correct. No question or debate. Then recent revisions at Wookiepedia inflating the Falcon to 64 meters (at least for a time). I will try to find if that ever had an explanation.
Currently Wookiepedia has this:
I take the "Length 34.75 meters" to be with a forward-mounted escape pod or cargo module.
Last edited by Inquisitor1138 on Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:35 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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This came up elsewhere. If you haven't heard of Frank Bonura, he is D6 fandom royalty when it comes to deck plans, ship design, etc. The above numbers are generated from the extensive work that he and others have done as part of the Star Wars Deckplans Alliance.
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | This came up elsewhere. If you haven't heard of Frank Bonura, he is D6 fandom royalty when it comes to deck plans, ship design, etc. The above numbers are generated from the extensive work that he and others have done as part of the Star Wars Deckplans Alliance. |
I appreciate his care and attention he gives to Star Wars and I can accept his length calculations for the Falcon and YT-1300s, but I've read his entire website and there is no basis for extrapolating that formula to apply to all WEG ships, most of which never appeared in the movies and none of which showed the inside of the ship, except for the Falcon.
As an update to one of Frank's stated objections in the linked discussion, I noticed in images from Solo that the Falcon ceiling of the main hold/common area of the Falcon does slope down to better confirm to its deckplan. Supposedly it was the same basic Falcon set used in the DT, just fancied up.
| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | As to what this has to do with the Millennium Falcon, this realization about the Ebon Hawk's true size, got me thinking about the Falcon.
For nearly three decades i had taken WEG's stated length for the Falcon of 26.7 meters as correct. No question or debate. Then recent revisions at Wookiepedia inflating the Falcon to 64 meters (at least for a time). I will try to find if that ever had an explanation.
Currently Wookiepedia has this:
I take the "Length 34.75 meters" to be with a forward-mounted escape pod or cargo module. |
That's was not the intention of the length update and that is way too small. The 34m update was a correction to the 25m due to it being way too short, and that is for the standard Falcon configuration without Lando's escape craft. According to the YT-1300 Millennium Falcon Owners' Workshop Manual, Lando's pre-MAW Falcon was over 40m in length. If you get down to the nitty gritty of the scale of the ship from seeing the insides, the classic Falcon must have a length in the 30s (meters). With the fore escape craft, I put Falcon length at almost up to the mid-40s.
Inquisitor, why is the Falcon length important in your game? Do you have YT-1300s in your game?
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! Thank you, CRMcNeill! That's very interesting indeed! And very helpful! Thank you!
Hmn, some interesting points to consider. Thank you, Whill!
I'll be reading the linked article shortly.
To answer Whill's question, no, there is no specific YT-1300 in the campaign i'm putting together, but they do exist, yes.
That, and i have been thinking about where & in what state the ship that becomes my previous campaign's Redsaber, which was rebuilt from a wreck in circa 25 ABY, might be in 15 BBY.
In any case, they'd be far more common, i think, than any reproductions of older craft.
Either way, with 37.38 meters as a corrected length for the Falcon, it shouldn't be too hard to work out the escape craft's dimensions. I agree it would make the Falcon 40-something meters. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | I appreciate his care and attention he gives to Star Wars and I can accept his length calculations for the Falcon and YT-1300s, but I've read his entire website and there is no basis for extrapolating that formula to apply to all WEG ships, most of which never appeared in the movies and none of which showed the inside of the ship, except for the Falcon. |
I'm involved in a side-project of his, and I'm in awe of the attention to detail he brings to his work. I judge fandom royalty status on longevity and contributions; Frank has been around since before I was even aware there was an on-line Star Wars fandom, and is, IMO, in the top 1-2% of fans who have greatly contributed to the community. The project he's currently working on will almost certainly push him even higher in my view.
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Whill
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | What project? Or is it a secret project? |
It's tough to describe and do it justice. He's doing a massive spreadsheet of weaponry and equipment, accounting for a variety of different factors (up to and including directly contacting the original WEG authors in an attempt to account for potential typos and other errors).
The end goal appears to be (at a minimum) a revised and expanded version of the Starship Build System from D6 Space, but factoring in not just WEG pricing, but a item quality modifier to account for spreadsheet discrepancies. Short version, it'll be a Star Wars Starship Build system done to Frank Bonura's standards.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dr. Bidlo
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Project Stardust... |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Apparently, me telling him about the X2 = +1D formula was something of a Rosetta Stone moment for his calculations...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | What project? Or is it a secret project? |
It's tough to describe and do it justice. He's doing a massive spreadsheet of weaponry and equipment, accounting for a variety of different factors (up to and including directly contacting the original WEG authors in an attempt to account for potential typos and other errors).
The end goal appears to be (at a minimum) a revised and expanded version of the Starship Build System from D6 Space, but factoring in not just WEG pricing, but a item quality modifier to account for spreadsheet discrepancies. Short version, it'll be a Star Wars Starship Build system done to Frank Bonura's standards. |
Sounds cool.
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Having re-read this thread & the Ship of Riddles (Archive Edition) thread, is Mr. Bonura's estimate/recalculation of ~37.5 meters (for the Falcon & YT-1300) still hold up? Or has he revised it?
Does the Length: 40.80m, with the forward escape craft attached from the Millennium Falcon: Owner's Workshop Manual meet his estimate or fall short?
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/815m1Xzw2BL.jpg
Is Frank's estimate as Whill suggested, closer to ≈45m?
While this has minimal impact to my short-term plans, it does strongly impact long-term plans & back-burner projects. |
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | Having re-read this thread & the Ship of Riddles (Archive Edition) thread, is Mr. Bonura's estimate/recalculation of ~37.5 meters (for the Falcon & YT-1300) still hold up? Or has he revised it?
Does the Length: 40.80m, with the forward escape craft attached from the Millennium Falcon: Owner's Workshop Manual meet his estimate or fall short?
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/815m1Xzw2BL.jpg
Is Frank's estimate as Whill suggested, closer to ≈45m? |
Frank doesn't have an estimate for Lando's Falcon because Frank hates the entire Star Wars franchise after April of 1999. Frank deeply despises George Lucas and Disney both. So my friendly suggestion: If you ever communicate with him, don't ask him how big the Falcon was in Solo.
In case anyone cares, the 40.8m length is based on the erroneous short canon length without the deluxe escape craft Lando added. So the error is just carried forward when there is really no way that is long enough.
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Inquisitor1138 wrote: | Having re-read this thread & the Ship of Riddles (Archive Edition) thread, is Mr. Bonura's estimate/recalculation of ~37.5 meters (for the Falcon & YT-1300) still hold up? Or has he revised it?
Does the Length: 40.80m, with the forward escape craft attached from the Millennium Falcon: Owner's Workshop Manual meet his estimate or fall short?
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/815m1Xzw2BL.jpg
Is Frank's estimate as Whill suggested, closer to ≈45m? |
Frank doesn't have an estimate for Lando's Falcon because Frank hates the entire Star Wars franchise after April of 1999. Frank deeply despises George Lucas and Disney both. So my friendly suggestion: If you ever communicate with him, don't ask him how big the Falcon was in Solo.
In case anyone cares, the 40.8m length is based on the erroneous short canon length without the deluxe escape craft Lando added. So the error is just carried forward when there is really no way that is long enough. |
*contemplative pause*
(cautious) "Ahhh..."
Well then, i guess it's a good thing my email to him is only concerning the TIE Lone Scout-A ortho i sent him...
I guess i better count pixels & do some math to get my answer, then!
Thanks Whill! |
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