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CRMcNeill
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 Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:49 pm Post subject: Deck Space and Starfighter Capacity |
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I've been doing some reading on the Battle of Midway recently, and discovered something interesting. For WWII aircraft carrier groups, squadron size was not a set number, but was, instead, dictated by how many aircraft could be parked in an allotted section of deck space in the hangar. This was part of the advantage of folding wings, in that where previously a squadron of fighters was limited to 12 or 15 planes, it could now have anywhere from 18-24.
In the SWU, starfighter capacity is uniform, and capital ships carry the same numbers of starfighters regardless of whether the starfighters in question are tiny TIE fighters or massive B-Wings. With Imperial fighters, stored in overhead racks, it shouldn't make too much difference, but with Alliance fighters, landed on a hangar deck, there are obvious size differences. If nothing else, a B-Wing takes up easily twice as much room as an X-Wing.
So, if you feel realism is important, should there be some sort of size modifier? Should an X-Wing take up 1 spot, a TIE Fighter 1/2, or a B-Wing 2 spots?
Thoughts?
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Savar
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm i have never been in a game with Starfighters, so I have no experience with the question.
I do remember in the X-Wing series they removed escape pods from the ship and attached Tie-fighters in place of them.
They also had racks and netting, the racks held x-wings, allowing more in the bay and faster launch. |
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Thx1138
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Makes sense, imperial fighters are easily organized since they are in the racks and similar in design. The alliance on the other hand uses different starfighter classes. Now assuming that alliance ships have multiple hangers, I would think that they would have in a single hanger fighters of the same class, that way it would be easier to service and organize them. But that is just a theory since in Jedi home one's hanger had different fighters in it. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Deck Space and Starfighter Capacity |
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| crmcneill wrote: | I've been doing some reading on the Battle of Midway recently, and discovered something interesting. For WWII aircraft carrier groups, squadron size was not a set number, but was, instead, dictated by how many aircraft could be parked in an allotted section of deck space in the hangar. This was part of the advantage of folding wings, in that where previously a squadron of fighters was limited to 12 or 15 planes, it could now have anywhere from 18-24.
In the SWU, starfighter capacity is uniform, and capital ships carry the same numbers of starfighters regardless of whether the starfighters in question are tiny TIE fighters or massive B-Wings. With Imperial fighters, stored in overhead racks, it shouldn't make too much difference, but with Alliance fighters, landed on a hangar deck, there are obvious size differences. If nothing else, a B-Wing takes up easily twice as much room as an X-Wing.
So, if you feel realism is important, should there be some sort of size modifier? Should an X-Wing take up 1 spot, a TIE Fighter 1/2, or a B-Wing 2 spots?
Thoughts? |
IMO yes. I think if we put are minds to it, we can stat out how much space each fighter takes up.
Taking a look at the existing rebel/imperial fighters (NR time frame not included), we get
IMPERIAL
Tie/IN 6.3 M
Tie/GT 6.3 m
Tie/RC 6.3 m
Tie/FC 6.3 m
Tie advance Mk 1 7.8 m
Tie aggressor 7.8 ,
Skipray blast boat 25 m
Tie Interceptor 6.6 m
Tie bomber and Tie shuttle 7.8 m
Tie Vangard 6.3 m
Tie Raptor 6.8 m
Tie phantom 14.6 m
Tie Oppressor 9.2 m
Assault gunboat, 15 m
Cygnus missile boat 15 m
Scimitar assault bomber 13.8 m
Tie Advance (avenger) 6.4 m
Tie Defender 7.2 m
REBEL
X-wing 12.5 m
Y-ying 16 m
A-wing 9.6 m
B-wing 16.9 m
Expanded cockpit b-wing 16.9 m
T-wing 10 m
H-wing 17.1 m
So with the Imperial ships, many can fit in the same area, while others will take up 1.5 to 2.5 "Slots.
OR you can grade a slot on the largest ship (the skipray) and make others fit into it.. Heck you can almost fit 4 Tie fighters into the one slot of a skipray.
Rebel ships though are harder to pin down.. 1 xwing is around 70% of the size of a B'wing, while one A-wing is 70% or so of the size of an X-wing. One Y-wing is almost the same size as a b-wing.
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Thx1138
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Personally I see skipray being held in another hanger on a ship since they are bigger and could be used like a shuttle if needed. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Thx1138 wrote: | | Personally I see skipray being held in another hanger on a ship since they are bigger and could be used like a shuttle if needed. |
Deckspace is deckspace. A Skipray could just as easily be docked in a regular fighter bay if needed.
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Thx1138
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| The TIE bays are made specifically for ships of the TIE class, they also are not true decks but openings in which TIE lauch out of, that way they conserve space, also since the blastboat tail portion rotates to the side when landed, it would make it impossible to fit in a TIE hanger. |
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cynanbloodbane
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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SW Rebels aside, I always assumed that TIEs docked in racks & couldn't actually land without a cradle or docking clamp to land on.
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Thx1138
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| According to some sources they can stand on their wings for a limited amount of time, what I find stranger is that the crew of the ghost was able to escape a star destroyer in a tie without space suites but they have no life support systems, it seems they don't do enough research for the show |
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Deck Space and Starfighter Capacity |
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| crmcneill wrote: | In the SWU, starfighter capacity is uniform, and capital ships carry the same numbers of starfighters regardless of whether the starfighters in question are tiny TIE fighters or massive B-Wings. With Imperial fighters, stored in overhead racks, it shouldn't make too much difference, but with Alliance fighters, landed on a hangar deck, there are obvious size differences. If nothing else, a B-Wing takes up easily twice as much room as an X-Wing.
So, if you feel realism is important, should there be some sort of size modifier? Should an X-Wing take up 1 spot, a TIE Fighter 1/2, or a B-Wing 2 spots?
Thoughts? |
The Empire is uniformity, consistency and modularity, but I never took Rebel starfighter capacity as uniform. I take them as typical. The Rebel Alliance has a chaotic hodge podge of various variably modified vehicles stored in various hangers of various sizes with various other vehicles and supplies also taking up space. The mainstay of the Rebel Fleet, the Mon Cal star cruisers, take this to the extreme with each vessel being a unique work of art.
Look at the film battles. It may have multiple hangers, but Home One's hanger shown in RotJ has various vehicles of various types seemingly haphazardly arranged in various orientations. And in ANH, Yavin launches 30 Rebel fighters total against the Death Star, and the only clear fighter groupings below Red and Gold Squadrons are flights of 3 ships each, but out of the 30 ships there were supposedly 22 X-Wings and 8 Y-Wings! Numbers not even divisible by 3, unless one or more of the squadrons had flights with a combination of Xs and Ys, or there were other flights with more or less than 3 ships each, which are both entirely possible with the rag-tag Rebels.
So, if "realism" with respect to the films is important to you, then you can easily have any Rebel ship or base have a large range of numbers of Rebel fighters of any type.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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That adds an additional wrinkle. You are correct about the Empire and uniformity, but there is a trend in the EU of Imperial vessels defecting to the Alliance. So what would the exchange rate be? What would be involved in stripping out the TIE landing racks to make room for Aurabesh Soup?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Thx1138
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought there were more Y-wings in the battle of Yavin since they had better targeting computers so the had better accuracy. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Thx1138 wrote: | | According to some sources they can stand on their wings for a limited amount of time, what I find stranger is that the crew of the ghost was able to escape a star destroyer in a tie without space suites but they have no life support systems, it seems they don't do enough research for the show |
Agreed. It actually is a little offensive that the cartoon shows are considered canon when so much well-thought-out material has been cast aside. I can honestly say that Clone Wars and Rebels offend my intelligence.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Thx1138 wrote: | | According to some sources they can stand on their wings for a limited amount of time, what I find stranger is that the crew of the ghost was able to escape a star destroyer in a tie without space suites but they have no life support systems, it seems they don't do enough research for the show |
Agreed. It actually is a little offensive that the cartoon shows are considered canon when so much well-thought-out material has been cast aside. I can honestly say that Clone Wars and Rebels offend my intelligence. |
I don't disagree.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Thx1138 wrote: | | I thought there were more Y-wings in the battle of Yavin since they had better targeting computers so the had better accuracy. |
There were other reasons, as well. At that point, Y-Wings would've been more readily available, what with being older, surplus craft.
Also, Whill, operational concerns could affect the numbers. 30 works out to 2 1/2 squadrons, but the description of the Y-Wing indicates that they became more and more maintenance intensive in their old age, so its possible that 1 X-Wing and 5 Y-Wings were down checked as not combat ready. That happened all the time in WWII, where carrier air groups flew strike missions with less than full strength squadrons, putting whatever was available in the air.
It's also possible that they had extra fighters available, above and beyond normal squadron numbers, and put every pilot they had into a ship just to get them into the fight, even if they were farm boys with no starfighter experience.
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