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shootingwomprats
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 Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:53 am Post subject: Avatar Orbital Platform |
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Alright guys, in my current adventure my group will have to leave Kashyyyk and go to the Avatar Orbital Platform and save a female wookiee and her two nieces before they are sold into slavery. I have never designed a base before. Suggestions and constructive criticisms greatly appreciated.
Avatar orbital Platform
Craft: Asteroid-based space station
Affiliation: Galactic Empire, Trandoshan slave clans (Blackscale clan)
Era: Rise of the Empire (~2 BBY)
Source: Wookieepedia, stats by +Oliver Queen
Type: Planetoid station
Scale: Capital
Crew: 300 (200 Stormtroopers), Skeleton 40/+10
Crew Skill: Capital ship gunnery 3D+2, capital ship shields 3D+2, sensors 3D, starship gunner 4D
Troops: 200 (stormtroopers)
Cargo Capacity: 1 million metric tons
Consumables: 5 years
Cost: Not available for sale
Hyperdrive Multiplier: NA
Hyperdrive Backup: NA
Nav Computer: NA
Space: NA
Hull: 10D
Shields: 2D
Sensors:
-- Passive: 40/1D
-- Scan: 80/2D
-- Search: 100/3D
-- Focus: 5/4D
Weapons:
8 Turbolaser Batteries
-- Fire Arc: Turret
-- Crew: 3
-- Skill: Capital ship gunnery
-- Scale: Capital
-- Fire Control: 4D
-- Space Range: 3-15/35/75
-- Damage: 5D
24 Laser Defense Towers
-- Fire Arc: Turret
-- Skill: Starship gunnery
-- Scale: Starfighter
-- Fire Control: 2D
-- Space Range: 1-3/12/25
-- Damage: 4D
12 Ion Cannons
-- Fire Arc: Turret
-- Skill: Starship Gunnery
-- Scale: Starfighter
-- Fire Control: 2D
-- Space Range: 1-5/15/30
4 Tractor Beam
-- Fire Arc: Front, left, right, rear
-- Skill: Starship Gunnery
-- Scale: starfighter
-- Fire Control: 4D
-- Space Range: 1-5/15/30
-- Damage: 4D
Starfighter Compliment: 24 TIE/LN (2 squadrons), 2 light transports, 1 Sentinel-class landing craft
Capsule: The Avatar Orbital Platform was a joint venture between the Empire and a group of Trandoshan slavers called the Blackscale Clan, built to aid in the transportation and sale of Wookiee slaves captured on nearby Kashyyyk and the moon of Alaris Prime.
Avatar Orbital Platform was a space station which acted as a slave hub. It was constructed by the Galactic Empire and Trandoshan slave groups. The platform was built for anything but appearances, and it was crude, but functional, and was equipped with sufficient defenses to keep Rebels from interfering with the Imperial slave trade. As of 4 ABY, it was configured in a square, with the main reactor in the middle. Four airbases provided transports on and off the station. Military buildings protected the reactor. At one corner, there was an Imperial Fortress; the corner diagonal to it held a slave pen protected by four laser turrets. A complement of stormtroopers and TIE fighters was also aboard.
Avatar was frequently the last stop for a family before they were separated for shipment to their new masters. The slaver Pekt was instrumental in designing the station. During the Galactic Civil War the only way to obtain clearance codes to land on the platform was from the Blackscale clan. However both the Zssik Clan of Trandoshan slavers and Imperial scientists on the planet Kashyyyk managed to acquire the codes to sent operatives aboard the station.
In 1 ABY, Wookiee freedom fighters attacked the Avatar Platform to stop the Trandoshan slaving operations. During these fights, a group of spacers working for the Zssik Clan entered the station to disrupt the Blackscale's slaving operations. After battling the Blackscale forces aboard the station, the spacers activated the station's self destruct sequence and returned to Kashyyyk. The station was rocked by large explosions that caused much damage and killed most beings on the platform, but overall the station remained intact and quite functional. It didn't take long before both the Blackscale clan and Wookiee freedom fighters sent reinforcements to the station to continue the fight for the control over the Avatar Platform.
During the Liberation of Kashyyyk in 4 ABY, Moff Hindane Darcc and Pekt were pursued by Han Solo and Chewbacca. When their Palace was destroyed, Darcc and Pekt retreated to Avatar but were followed by their pursuers. Solo had already sent a message to the New Republic and as soon as they arrived on Avatar, they were joined by Lando Calrissian on the Millennium Falcon and Rogue Squadron with Luke Skywalker. After a brief battle, the Rebels destroyed the airbases to prevent the Darcc and Pekt from escaping, rescued Attichitcuk who was enslaved with other Wookiees, and finally brought justice to Darcc and Pekt. Finally, the Rebels destroyed the Main Reactor, destabilizing the Platform and causing it to crash onto Kashyyyk.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:11 am Post subject: |
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If as the capsule says, this crashed into Kashyyyk, why with how big it is, did it not cause an Extinction event?
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | If as the capsule says, this crashed into Kashyyyk, why with how big it is, did it not cause an Extinction event? |
Its Star Wars. Perhaps the giant wroshyr trees and multilevel canopy offered up some fantastic and strong cover. Maybe with the destruction of the power plant on the Avatar Orbital Platform it broke into small enough pieces that the environmental impact was negligible. Don't even get me started on the extinction event that would have been the forest moon of Endor after the destruction of the Death Star II.
Bottom line is it doesn't matter how you explain it. My concern is do the stats make sense.
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Zarn
Force Spirit
Joined: 17 Jun 2014
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | If as the capsule says, this crashed into Kashyyyk, why with how big it is, did it not cause an Extinction event? |
Did you do the math? From my preliminary numbers, it seems that you didn't do the math.
Low-ball estimate, based on the cargo capacity:
Let's model the cargo capacity as a sphere, with a mass of 1 million metric tons, which is 1 * 10^9 kg. Let's use a density of 2600 kg / cubic meter, because it seems reasonable.
That gives a volume of our sphere at 384615 cubic meters. Let's calculate the diameter of the sphere, then. Working from the general formula for the volume of a sphere, and rearranging the expression to expressing the radius, I get that the radius is equal to the cube root of (3 * V)/(4*pi). As far as I can tell, that's roughly the equivalent of a sphere of 90 meters in diameter.
Last edited by Zarn on Mon May 13, 2019 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16283
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:35 am Post subject: |
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A 10D hull makes this thing as tough as a Super Star Destroyer. Is that intentional?
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | A 10D hull makes this thing as tough as a Super Star Destroyer. Is that intentional? |
Yeah its a giant piece of floating rock/iron in space with has been hollowed out. Figured it was big and tough. As I said, never stat'd a base before so I am asking for suggestions and constructive criticisms.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: |
Its Star Wars. Perhaps the giant wroshyr trees and multilevel canopy offered up some fantastic and strong cover. Maybe with the destruction of the power plant on the Avatar Orbital Platform it broke into small enough pieces that the environmental impact was negligible. Don't even get me started on the extinction event that would have been the forest moon of Endor after the destruction of the Death Star II.
Bottom line is it doesn't matter how you explain it. My concern is do the stats make sense. |
The stats seem fine (other than the 10d hull), but just cause "ITs star wars" is not a good enough reason imo to ignore certain aspects of physics..
| Zarn wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | If as the capsule says, this crashed into Kashyyyk, why with how big it is, did it not cause an Extinction event? |
Did you do the math? From my preliminary numbers, it seems that you didn't do the math.
Low-ball estimate, based on the cargo capacity:
Let's model the cargo capacity as a sphere, with a mass of 1 million metric tons, which is 1 * 10^9 kg. Let's use a density of 2600 kg / cubic meter, because it seems reasonable.
That gives a volume of our sphere at 384615 cubic meters. Let's calculate the diameter of the sphere, then. Working from the general formula for the volume of a sphere, and rearranging the expression to expressing the radius, I get that the radius is equal to the cube root of (3 * V)/(4*pi). As far as I can tell, that's roughly the equivalent of a sphere of 90 meters in diameter.
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From looking at the pic and others of this type of base (it appears in several SW games), it is a LOT more than just one big cargo space. You need troop quarters, storage for batteries, fuel cells, power generators, shield generators, Air filtration, command units, gun emplacements, hangers etc. All that should imo up this asteroid in size to around 300 or so meters across.
And even if its not a full on E.L.E, having an asteroid of this size crash into a planet, will decimated quite a bit of real estate.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Good stuff guys. I did not post an actual size for it since its really inconsequential except from a numbers crunching end of things. For game terms its as big as it needs to be and is considered Capital scale for soaking damage. I suppose a number for approximate area would be nice. No idea what to go with though. Its really an unnecessary item. Any number could be given, ever a really large number with the explanation that its not a completely hollowed out planetoid but partially with a number of surface buildings, covered access points and ship landing bays.
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Zarn
Force Spirit
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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If you're going to criticize me, garhkal, please do me the common courtesy of reading my entire text.
Kashyyyk is much larger than Earth. How does this impact the impact, if you'll excuse the pun? Well, it's difficult to say. The Kashyyyk article doesn't go into the nitty gritty details about surface gravity, composition, and so on. It does mention that the forest cover of wroshyr trees is several kilometers thick.
What's Star Wars-y and what's not?
You've earlier made statements that make me think you have a very firm idea of what you consider Star Wars and what you don't consider Star Wars. We've butted heads over this before. I'm still of the firm conviction that Star Wars is, at its heart, space opera, edging into planetary romance territory.
It has its roots firmly in pulp, as well as weird tales. As such, a certain amount of handwaving is expected - nay, even required. I find it perfectly reasonable of shootingwomprats to handwave the entire thing.
Do the stats make sense?
More or less the only part of your criticism that I agree with, garhkal, is that 10D Capital scale seems too much. This is in part due to how SWd6 is put together. However, instead of just arbitrarily reduce it to some predetermined hull code, I propose a more modular approach: treat the asteroid base as a collection of several semi-independent ships or modules.
- Living quarters / barracks (the large, windowed section facing right)
- Life support/hydroponics (the three little tanks on the right): 3D
- Command and control (oval thingy): 6D
- Sensors (top bunker): 3D
- Fire control and coordination (left tower): 4D
- Hangars (facing top right): 3D
- Power Generation (lower edge): 4D
- Storage (somewhere in the middle): 4D
Asteroid: 10D
Shields: 2D; Power Generation section has 4D
Let's say that fire control controls all the turbolaser batteries, that half the ion cannons are controlled from the hangar and half from command and control, that the tractor beams are controlled from the hangar, and that the laser defense towers are assigned equally to command and control, fire control, sensors, and hangar - giving each of these 3 towers (that can coordinate their fire in each section).
Thus, I propose to divide the station into seven parts, essentially treating them each as a separate 'ship', if you will, and if overwhelming firepower is used against the asteroid base, consider the base itself to have 10D of 'structural' dice.
It's also likely that they do have a navcomputer onboard - some shuttles and starfighters are unable to calculate their own jumps, so they may provide that as a service - also, as slavers, they may want to give some subcontractors coded jumps so that the subcontractors don't get access to the actual coordinates, and they need a means of generating those jumps.
Last edited by Zarn on Mon May 13, 2019 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | << Removed this half of the discussion since it had no business in my thread. C'mon guys, ignore each other already. Separate corners you two. Don't make me get the rolled up newspaper!>> |
| Zarn wrote: | | More or less the only part of your criticism that I agree with, garhkal, is that 10D Capital scale seems too much. <snip> I propose a more modular approach: treat the asteroid base as a collection of several semi-independent ships or modules. |
I like this idea very much. Once we delve into this closer its my hope this does not add too much complexity. I appreciate adding realism but at its heart its Star Wars and its pulpy.
| Zarn wrote: | - Living quarters / barracks (the large, windowed section facing right)
- Life support/hydroponics (the three little tanks on the right): 3D
- Command and control (oval thingy): 6D
- Sensors (top bunker): 3D
- Fire control and coordination (left tower): 4D
- Hangars (facing top right): 3D
- Power Generation (lower edge): 4D
- Storage (somewhere in the middle): 4D
Asteroid: 10D
Shields: 2D; Power Generation section has 4D
Let's say that fire control controls all the turbolaser batteries, that half the ion cannons are controlled from the hangar and half from command and control, that the tractor beams are controlled from the hangar, and that the laser defense towers are assigned equally to command and control, fire control, sensors, and hangar - giving each of these 3 towers (that can coordinate their fire in each section). |
So far, once I have cleaned up what you were suggesting I am liking this very much. Lets see where this goes!
| Zarn wrote: | Let's say that fire control controls all the turbolaser batteries, that half the ion cannons are controlled from the hangar and half from command and control, that the tractor beams are controlled from the hangar, and that the laser defense towers are assigned equally to command and control, fire control, sensors, and hangar - giving each of these 3 towers (that can coordinate their fire in each section).
Thus, I propose to divide the station into seven parts, essentially treating them each as a separate 'ship', if you will, and if overwhelming firepower is used against the asteroid base, consider the base itself to have 10D of 'structural' dice. |
So something like this?
- Living quarters/barracks (the large, windowed section facing right): Hull 3D, Shields 2D.
- Life support/hydroponics (the three little tanks on the right): Hull 3D, Shields 2D.
- Command and control (oval thingy): Hull 6D, Shields 2D, 8 Turbolasers, 6 Ion Cannons, 3 Laser Defense Towers.
- Sensors (top bunker): Hull 3D, Shields 2D, 3 Laser Defense Towers
- Fire control and coordination (left tower): Hull 4D, Shields 2D, 3 Laser Defense Towers
- Hangars (facing top right): Hull 3D, Shields 2D, 6 Ion Cannons, 4 Tractor Beam Projectors, 3 Laser Defense Towers
- Power Generation (lower edge): Hull 4D, Shields 4D.
- Storage (somewhere in the middle): Hull 4D, Shields 2D.
The question does arise about Firing Arcs and how this relates to the different sections. Suggestions on tackling this? So far I am liking it, but again my concern is ease of use and not a substantial increase in mechanics or new rules.
<<EDIT>>
Just looked at the Imperial Garrison Base from Battle for the Golden Sun and Star Wars Adventure Journal #12. The base is not broken down into areas like your suggesting. Furthermore its Capital scale and has a 7D Hull and 3D Shields. Granted its modular and military grade. I am unsure if that would be the same for Avatar Orbital Platform or not. I am sure the Empire contributed to it being built but was that in materials, engineers, construction or monetary? I could see the base being a combination of these things (modular military, mined out sections, civilian modular, etc) which would explain the lower Hull rating and since its civilian with military oversight the 2D shield instead of 3D makes sense as well.
| Zarn wrote: | | It's also likely that they do have a navcomputer onboard |
This seems perfectly logical but really seems more a function of the computer systems and not something that ties to the operation of the facility.
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Zarn
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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I don't find it reasonable for the Imperial Garrison Base to be 7D + 3D Capital scale - that's the equivalent of an Imperial II Star Destroyer, and that's a cutting edge capital ship with 60 turbolaser batteries, 60 ion cannons, and 10 tractor beam projectors, and the garrison base only has three heavy twin turbolaser turrets, six heavy twin laser cannons, and three tractor beam projectors. It just can't be as heavily armored as an Imp II.
Last edited by Zarn on Mon May 13, 2019 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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wildfire
Lieutenant Commander
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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To throw more hydro spammers in the works I have had a quick scan through Gry Sarths Dropbox collection of space stations and have seen a range of hull codes.
Of interest are the fortified asteroid at 4D and starforge station which is a similarly modified asteroid at 10D.
That said a lot of the defence stations range from 4D to 7D capital scale.
Best advice go with what feels right for how tough you want the station to be.  |
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Zarn wrote: | | If you're going to criticize me, garhkal, please do me the common courtesy of reading my entire text. |
I did read your texts. But as A) i am not a history/math buff, i have no idea where you were pulling those figures from, and B) am remembering that recent impact crater in Russia from a basketball or so, sized meteorite that impacted, i felt something of the size of this station would have caused quite a bit more devastation than you seemed to give it 'credit for'.
| Zarn wrote: | Kashyyyk is much larger than Earth. How does this impact the impact, if you'll excuse the pun? Well, it's difficult to say. The Kashyyyk article doesn't go into the nitty gritty details about surface gravity, composition, and so on. It does mention that the forest cover of wroshyr trees is several kilometers thick.
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May i ask where you are getting the "its larger than earth' Statement from? Going off the Kashyyyk Wiki page, it lists its diameter as the exact same as earth, 12,756km.
| Zarn wrote: | What's Star Wars-y and what's not?
You've earlier made statements that make me think you have a very firm idea of what you consider Star Wars and what you don't consider Star Wars. We've butted heads over this before. I'm still of the firm conviction that Star Wars is, at its heart, space opera, edging into planetary romance territory.
It has its roots firmly in pulp, as well as weird tales. As such, a certain amount of handwaving is expected - nay, even required. I find it perfectly reasonable of shootingwomprats to handwave the entire thing.
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I kinda do. Mecha, b-tech style stuff, Anime inspired stuff, imo is not Star warsy. Well for the most part. Some Anime 'superpowers, can be used as a basis imo for making new force abilities.
| Zarn wrote: | Do the stats make sense?
More or less the only part of your criticism that I agree with, garhkal, is that 10D Capital scale seems too much. This is in part due to how SWd6 is put together. However, instead of just arbitrarily reduce it to some predetermined hull code, I propose a more modular approach: treat the asteroid base as a collection of several semi-independent ships or modules.
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Thanks for the like of that aspect of criticism.
And i like the 'making it a modular' approach.
| Zarn wrote: | Let's say that fire control controls all the turbolaser batteries, that half the ion cannons are controlled from the hangar and half from command and control, that the tractor beams are controlled from the hangar, and that the laser defense towers are assigned equally to command and control, fire control, sensors, and hangar - giving each of these 3 towers (that can coordinate their fire in each section).
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One thing i am surprised at, is looking at the pick, only the 'top arc' seems to have weapon emplacements in it. Nothing protecting its "underbelly". So maybe that side has extra shielding to compensate.
Also, since it is "hollowed out". Would getting INSIDE and blowing something up be more damaging ala Deep impact/Armageddon?
| Zarn wrote: | It's also likely that they do have a navcomputer onboard - some shuttles and starfighters are unable to calculate their own jumps, so they may provide that as a service - also, as slavers, they may want to give some subcontractors coded jumps so that the subcontractors don't get access to the actual coordinates, and they need a means of generating those jumps.
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I like that as a plot hook. Also, though thinking on it more, cause of its need for repositioning, i could see it say having a space speed of say 1 or 2.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Zarn wrote: | | I don't find it reasonable for the Imperial Garrison Base to be 7D + 3D Capital scale - that's the equivalent of an Imperial II Star Destroyer, and that's a cutting edge capital ship with 60 turbolaser batteries, 60 ion cannons, and 10 tractor beam projectors, and the garrison base only has three heavy twin turbolaser turrets, six heavy twin laser cannons, and three tractor beam projectors. It just can't be as heavily armored as an Imp II.. |
I don't have a problem with the Garrison Base being that tough. It can't dodge, after all, so its only defense is to be tough enough to brush off all but the heaviest attacks. There is no reason the designers couldn't have dictated the toughest available materials, backed up by magnetic shield enhancement, or whatever else you want to throw into the works.
That being said, I agree that 10D is too much for an asteroid. YMMV.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Zarn
Force Spirit
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| My bad, garhkal, you're right - for some reason I read 12k as the radius, not the diameter. Hence my comment, "much larger than Earth". |
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