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Droid armor.
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Lostboy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:12 am    Post subject: Droid armor. Reply with quote

In the droid stats book in the battle droids section some have armor that imparts a dex penalty and i wanted to know if the droid stats have already been adjusted to acount for this?
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stats are for the default droids. So if any droid write up gives the droid a bonus to resist damage, then yes, it has been factored in.

Any addtional armor added has to be dealt with separately.
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Lostboy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the dex penalty?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Droid armor Reply with quote

Lostboy wrote:
In the droid stats book in the battle droids section some have armor that imparts a dex penalty and i wanted to know if the droid stats have already been adjusted to acount for this?

I've got two fan-created Droid stat books, so my first question is, which one? Secondly, which droid? On my cursory glance of both documents, I found several droids which mentioned built-in body armor that adds to the base Strength to resist damage, but I didn't see any that also mentioned a Dex penalty. Maybe I missed it.

Strength to resist damage can't be factored into the base stats because that is not a Strength skill. If a droid with built-in armor needs a higher Strength to resist damage stat it must be represented as equipment with mention of the specific bonus. (Having a higher base Strength attribute likewise increases all Strength skills which armor wouldn't do). I saw several droids with the armor bonus.

However I agree that any Dex considerations should be factored into the stats without needing a Dex penalty. This isn't an organic being that can put on or take off the armor. It is built-in to the droid, so there shouldn't need to be a Dex penalty because the droid's Dex stat can just be determined to account for that up front, and all Dex skill are determined by the base Dex attribute. I think statting a droid to have a Dex penalty is wonky when you can just set the Dex appropriately and not subtract the penalty during play.

So please cite the specific droid and source for starters, and maybe we can figure it out. Thanks.
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Lostboy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The book is the droid stats book by Thaigo S. Aranha

Page 75 the Dark trooper Phase 3
the book states that it is equiped with

-Armored shell (+3D to Strength when resisting damage,
–2D to Dexterity)

As the Dark trooper has a dex of only 2D you can see the dilemma.

It is also listed in the Rebelion Era Source book page 104-105
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Luwingo_Spince
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having not looked at the stat book, I might be able to answer the question.

The phase three can be an independent droid or worn as a suit of armor. Perhaps that is where the dex penaltycomes into play.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Spince's assessment of the Dark Trooper.

For instances with droid stats, if the item comes listed on the droid stat, I'd assume that the penalty was already factored in. Something having an effective 0D Dexterity means it can't move, which in this case, doesn't make sense. There's a good chance that those stats were converted from D20, and so the armor check penalty from the droid plating was incorporated into the stat block automatically.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lostboy wrote:
in the battle droids section
Lostboy wrote:
the Dark trooper Phase 3

Ah, not being familiar with that corner of the EU, I didn't think of that as a "battle droid", so I didn't read droid stats that far down in the document. Thanks.

Raven Redstar wrote:
I agree with Spince's assessment of the Dark Trooper.

For instances with droid stats, if the item comes listed on the droid stat, I'd assume that the penalty was already factored in. Something having an effective 0D Dexterity means it can't move, which in this case, doesn't make sense. There's a good chance that those stats were converted from D20, and so the armor check penalty from the droid plating was incorporated into the stat block automatically.

I concur with that regarding the droid stats (just use DEX without the armor penalty), but reading that stat block brings up another issue regarding the armor aspect...

Quote:
DEXTERITY 2D
...
-Armored shell (+3D to Strength when resisting damage, –2D to Dexterity)
...
Notes: The Phase Three Dark Trooper can also be worn as
an exo-suit using the powersuit operation skill. The operator
can take advantage of any of the droid’s accessories, but
must use his own weapon skills to operate the droid’s
armament. The operator must use the droid’s Dexterity and
Strength scores while using the suit

So if the operator must use the droid's DEX 2D, and the Armor DEX penalty only applies to wearing it as a powersuit, then the operator has DEX 0D. Yep, it also seems to me that the conversion is wonky.
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Luwingo_Spince
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think their might be a bit of confusion whill. again I haven'thad a chance to look at the stat block but my understanding is that he phase three comes as one or the other. Either a Droid or a suit of armor. So the operator would use it like a normal power suit using his own dex
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the armored shell operates as a powersuit, then the character would use their mechanical attribute to maneuver with Powersuit Operation skill, the Dexterity penalty would only apply to their combat skills, which unless defaulting to the attribute would simply be at a -2D penalty, so I could see it working in that situation.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luwingo_Spince wrote:
I think their might be a bit of confusion whill. again I haven'thad a chance to look at the stat block but my understanding is that he phase three comes as one or the other. Either a Droid or a suit of armor. So the operator would use it like a normal power suit using his own dex

There might be. I quoted the stat block above. It flat-out says when in the suit, you use the droids' Dex instead of your own. I agree that seems counter-intuitive, but that's what it says. Since the droid has 2D Dex, and the Dex penalty applies to that, characters wearing the suit would have an effective Dex of 0D.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
If the armored shell operates as a powersuit, then the character would use their mechanical attribute to maneuver with Powersuit Operation skill, the Dexterity penalty would only apply to their combat skills, which unless defaulting to the attribute would simply be at a -2D penalty, so I could see it working in that situation.

And this is how it works. Thanks Raven! Yeah this is a droid that also functions as a powersuit. Dex 0D is not an immediate problem since you are using Powersuit Op to operate it. So you won't need 0D base Dex to move, but any Dex skill usage would still have the -2D Dex penalty apply to the character's Dex skills. I interpret this as meaning if the suit loses power while in it, you then couldn't move under your own power (so you then better get out of the suit if you need to get anywhere).
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Lostboy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nods, Nicely done.

On page 67 of the same book The Sith slayer and the sith eleit war bot both have
-Alchemically-treated Sith armor plating (+3D to Strength to
resist damage, -2D to Dexterity)
and there is no indication thaat they are useable as power suits.

Also the Sith Sentry on page 88
-Alchemically-treated Sith armor plating (+1D to Strength to
resist damage, -1D to Dexterity)
I have also noticed that the 2nd stage Dark trooper isn't a power suit and has
-Armored shell (+2D to Strength when resisting damage,
–1D to Dexterity)
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say that with the droid equipment, the stats already reflect the dexterity penalty. However, unless GrySarth comes to clarify, you'll just have to settle for the opinions of those of us who have already responded. You could try sending him a private message and ask if he has time to clarify. He doesn't make it onto the forums much anymore.

If something has an armored shell stat, I think it's if a non-droid character or a non-darktrooper droid is wearing the armored shell. Which, in this case, would be the equivalent of equipping improved stormtrooper armor on someone.
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Lostboy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.
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