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Yubacore
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Joined: 04 Aug 2014
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Location: California
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 Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:10 am Post subject: About grenades |
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Grenades seemed like the "fix-all" for my players in combat this last adventure I ran. Some things came up and i had some ideas.
The damage seemed strange to us that you had to roll damage against each individual within the blast radius. This means someone at short range could (very luckily) receive very little damage and walk away while someone at medium range could die. This happened in our session. Here is what I purposed:
You make one grenade roll at full damage (5D) and leave the dice out as they fell. If any character is within the 5D range this is the number they must roll against. If there are any characters within the medium range damage radius the GM removes the lowest die from the roll to produce the 4D damage number. The damage number has realistically gone down and no re-roll is needed. Then repeat for other blast radius' if needed.
I don't know, I wanted to see what you guys thought. Maybe we're just doing it wrong the normal way.
Also, has anybody ever run into rules for rolling grenades? |
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Zarm R'keeg
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:14 am Post subject: |
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That's about how I do it- except that I roll 1D to see how many of the targets its being thrown at are actually caught in the blast radius, and don't differentiate between close and medium ranges. I think I like your idea better.
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vulture811
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| interesting way to handle the rolls, i like how it minimized the rolling needed for the different ranges, how do you handle the dodge? My gm has started using the d6 space approach, which i think allows dodge, but you cant escape all of the damage if you are in the inner ring and your more likely to escape damage the further out from the center you are. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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I've never read it that you roll the damage separately against each target in the AOE, just that each blast zone is rolled separately.
So if i toss a grenade at a pack of 5 storm troopers, 2 who are in the Point blank zone, one in the first zone out, one in the third and the last one is in the final zone (6d/5d/3d/2d) damage, you roll it for the zone and all in that blast spot takes it.
Your way of just taking one die out is good, though why just the lowest die only? Why not take what is rolled, say 5d, record that #, then each blast zone down, just roll 1d and remove that from the #?
IE i hit 7 troopers. Two are in the point blank zone (0-3m), one is in the 3-6M zone, two are in the 7-10 zone and the last 2 are in the 10-12 blast zone.
The 5d roll comes up 22. So both in the point blank zone take that.
The one in the 3-6M spot takes 1d less. Same with the 7-10 zone, and same for the 2 in the 10-12 zone..
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Yubacore
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Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I've never read it that you roll the damage separately against each target in the AOE, just that each blast zone is rolled separately. |
That's what I was trying to say. If you have two different characters caught in different blast zones (e.g. 5D and 4D) the you roll damage for each separately using the appropriate number of dice. That's the official rule, right?
| garhkal wrote: | | So if i toss a grenade at a pack of 5 storm troopers, 2 who are in the Point blank zone, one in the first zone out, one in the third and the last one is in the final zone (6d/5d/3d/2d) damage, you roll it for the zone and all in that blast spot takes it. |
Yes.
| garhkal wrote: | | Your way of just taking one die out is good, though why just the lowest die only? Why not take what is rolled, say 5d, record that #, then each blast zone down, just roll 1d and remove that from the #? |
Because we found that sometimes people who got caught in the inner blast zones sometimes survived (sometimes the 5D zone), and on the same grenade people in the outer blast zones died horribly. Mind you, both characters had the same stats (stormtroopers), it just seemed way too lucky and unlucky at the same time. Taking out the lowest die still simulates the dissipation of the blast while staying true to the damage roll, I feel. If I roll 5D and roll all 1's and 2's then roll 3D and roll a 5 and 2 6's it just seems soooooo.. unreal? the only way I could spin it as a GM was the unlucky Stormtrooper caught some shrapnel while the other was lucky. Which is fine, but it just started getting old after a while.
| vulture811 wrote: | | how do you handle the dodge? |
You can totally dodge in the offical rules. In R&E it says it's basically like hitting the dirt. |
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Yubacore
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry I realize I didn't clarify something- When I say "take out the lowest die", I mean up to the damage zone dice. So, roll then; 5D=Full damage then >take out 1 (the lowest) die for 4D damage zone (no re-rolling) then >take out the next lowest (now taking out 2 dice from the original roll) for the 3D zone etc... |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Yubacore wrote: |
That's what I was trying to say. If you have two different characters caught in different blast zones (e.g. 5D and 4D) the you roll damage for each separately using the appropriate number of dice. That's the official rule, right? |
Yes it is.
| Yubacore wrote: |
Because we found that sometimes people who got caught in the inner blast zones sometimes survived (sometimes the 5D zone), and on the same grenade people in the outer blast zones died horribly. Mind you, both characters had the same stats (stormtroopers), it just seemed way too lucky and unlucky at the same time. |
Its like that with any missile/grenade/explosive. Cause you are rolling dice for them, there will be situations where rolling the "Higher" blast zone dice pool gets you less than the lower one. Just like one of the games at Origns this year. Had a Thermal detonator set up to take out a patrol and the chariot LAV escort vehicle. Screwed up on the timing, so the vehicle was in one of the lower blast zones (5d iirc), while the troops were in the 8d zone.
Rolled the 8d for damage, and only got a 22. Rolled the 5d damage against the vehicle and got 28, and that was after one reroll of the wild die.
Same thing with a grenade our group got hit by, in a later battle. I was one of 2 pc's caught in the point blank zone (6d cause it was a Merrson rechargable stun grenade) but we only took 17 damage. Those who were 2 blast zones out though (4d zone) took 20 damage.
Cause of how dice are, sometimes when rolling a larger pool, you may get a lessened amount than what a lower pool rolls.
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Yubacore
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Cause of how dice are, sometimes when rolling a larger pool, you may get a lessened amount than what a lower pool rolls. |
I totally get what you're saying which is why in this case I almost want to say it's misplaced, or it shouldn't be like that. Just with the grenades.
How do you guys explain, story/fiction wise, what happened when this occurs? As our GM, I like to add a bit of flavor after every roll (just a sentence or two) of "what occurred" instead of just: "miss", "hit", or "he's dead". If the group in the middle of the blast, in your example, walked away but the vehicle was destroyed, how dose your GM interpret that? |
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: |
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First of all, good for you for narrating things a bit (instead of just saying 'hit' or 'miss'). I need to remember to do more of that (which can be tough when there's a ton of combatants).
Secondly, I think it's easy to describe how somebody further out took more damage. It really comes down to luck (which is what dice do anyway), and a person much further out could have taken a piece of shrapnel in a more vulnerable place (like the neck, or hit an artery, or for a stormtrooper perhaps it hit between sections of armor) while maybe the closer one hit into a fleshy part (like the butt) that doesn't really do as much critical damage.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:59 am Post subject: |
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In the troops-vehicle case the DM described it as the troops were so close there was little chance of more debris getting involved, where as the tank was far enough away it did get shrapnel, right into the fuel tank (cause the DM rolled poorly for its soak).
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Yubacore
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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I think those are all good ways of interperpreting the dice. Makes sense. Thanks for sharing your GM experience with me. It will definitely add to my own game.
Thanks for the compliment! I TRY to keep up with the narration but I must admit it can wear you down. But I enjoy it, hopefully my players do as well and you guys have for sure added to their fun. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:40 am Post subject: |
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No probs. Some of my narrations of crummy/great die rolls have been part of the reason some players do get the feeling i am a killer DM.
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Barrataria
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Joined: 28 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Its like that with any missile/grenade/explosive. Cause you are rolling dice for them, there will be situations where rolling the "Higher" blast zone dice pool gets you less than the lower one. Just like one of the games at Origns this year. Had a Thermal detonator set up to take out a patrol and the chariot LAV escort vehicle. Screwed up on the timing, so the vehicle was in one of the lower blast zones (5d iirc), while the troops were in the 8d zone. |
I don't reroll ALL the damage dice; I roll from the outside in and add dice as I go. So, the outer zone takes 2D, let's say that's 11. I roll 2 more D for the middle zone, let's say that comes up 2, for 13 total damage there. Then I roll the last two dice (one wild) and total for the inner zone damage.
Not intended by the rules, but I think it subtly makes the damage more logical.
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Barrataria wrote: | I don't reroll ALL the damage dice; I roll from the outside in and add dice as I go. So, the outer zone takes 2D, let's say that's 11. I roll 2 more D for the middle zone, let's say that comes up 2, for 13 total damage there. Then I roll the last two dice (one wild) and total for the inner zone damage.
Not intended by the rules, but I think it subtly makes the damage more logical. |
So the Wild Die only for that innermost circle? Wouldn't this mean that there's no chance for extra damage (or something going wrong) with the outermost damage zone?
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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That's what it seems like. Personally i prefer the roll the center circle, then go outward. But i can see doing it the other way too.
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