| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16283
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
 Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:30 pm Post subject: Bolos in the SWU? |
 |
|
For those of you who haven't read any of Keith Laumer's Bolo series, it is quite an interesting take on military sci-fi. They center around sentient mega-tanks (up to 80-90 meters long, weighing up to 15,000 tons) with weapons capable of hitting starships in orbit. The stories center around the sentience aspects of massive killing machines dealing with human emotions, honor, combat trauma, etc.
Obviously, a droid the size of a starship packing capital-scale weaponry would be a hard sell as a player character, but I find myself wondering if there is a place for vehicles like this in the SWU? It would make a hell of an opponent for PCs if the Empire deployed something like this (it makes an AT-AT look puny by comparison). Aspects of the Bolo can be found in other parts of the SWU (Juggernaut GAV, the droid brains of the World Devastators, combat droids in general).
I'm not advocating or condoning any particular perspective on whether or not Bolos should be included in the SWU; I'm just promoting the discussion.
Thoughts?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sure would make for an interesting enemy, IMHO.
_________________
Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2272
Location: Seattle, WA
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not familiar with Bolos at all, but I think the concept is sound and fits the genre and 'feel' of SW perfectly. The Death Stars were huge mechanical objects of terror, after all!
_________________
Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aegisflashfire
Commander
Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 298
Location: Cincinnati, OH
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
isn't this kinda like the Ssi'ru (sp?) from Truce at Bakura?
_________________
http://swfallingstar.podbean.com
GM of Falling Star: D6 Star Wars Campaign Podcast |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Surgo
Cadet
Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In terms of things on the ground hitting stuff in orbit, there's already planetary defense turbolasers and whatnot, right? It's not exactly a stretch to put them on very large mobile units. Emphasis on the large -- these tanks sound pretty big. Also not really a stretch to have them droid controlled.
I guess what I'm saying is it doesn't sound like a hard sell for me -- just a natural extension of already existing tech. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16283
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jmanski wrote: | | Sure would make for an interesting enemy, IMHO. |
Indeed, but depending on how closely one follows the Bolo canon, their greatest weaknesses could be psychological, in that the Bolo's personality is that of an honorable soldier tasked with protecting and defending humanity. If Bolos were introduced as an Imperial weapon, that mindset would inevitably come into conflict with Imperial policy the first time a Bolo was ordered to massacre a civilian population. And Bolos do have some capacity to defy direct orders, even at the cost of their own lives.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16283
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DougRed4 wrote: | | I'm not familiar with Bolos at all, but I think the concept is sound and fits the genre and 'feel' of SW perfectly. The Death Stars were huge mechanical objects of terror, after all! |
On the surface, you are correct, but Bolos are more than just one-dimensional killing machines. They are highly intelligent, honorable, thoughtful beings, programmed that way as a safeguard against the possibility of turning on their human masters. To treat them solely as a weapon would be to diminish a key aspect of the Bolo.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16283
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| aegisflashfire wrote: | | isn't this kinda like the Ssi'ru (sp?) from Truce at Bakura? |
No, the Ssi'ruuk harvested human bioenergy to fuel their droids. A Bolo is controlled by a highly intelligent droid brain that is designed to either achieve sentience or to already be sentient from the outset.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16283
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Surgo wrote: | In terms of things on the ground hitting stuff in orbit, there's already planetary defense turbolasers and whatnot, right? It's not exactly a stretch to put them on very large mobile units. Emphasis on the large -- these tanks sound pretty big. Also not really a stretch to have them droid controlled.
I guess what I'm saying is it doesn't sound like a hard sell for me -- just a natural extension of already existing tech. |
I agree that the technology has precedent in the SWU. My meaning was more that the Bolo would be a hard sell as a character. While the Bolo's highly advanced personality allows opportunities for character development, the logistics of incorporating a droid the size of a football field into a party presents some pretty insurmountable logistical and gaming issues. Incorporating a Bolo into an adventure as an NPC would be the only practical choice, unless the characters managed to incorporate a Bolo personality into their starship or something.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zarn
Force Spirit
Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 698
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A quick trip through my memory banks supplied these examples of pre-existing tech that is similar (IMHO):
- D'harhan, Boba Fett's walking artillery 'friend' (term applied loosely)
- Iron Knights, sentient crystals driving a droid body
- The Will from the Eye of Palpatine
- World Devastators, and the
- Great Heep of the Abominors
Though Star Wars tends to put Big Smart Objects in orbit or at least space-capable, I think that a dinochrome entry from Star Wars might be modeled after either The Will or Iron Knights, and just inhabiting a huge droid (that is perhaps even Capital scale) in a society facing something similar to what the Niordi (D'harhan) faced. Such as, oh, I don't know, rampant biological von Neumann probes, or perhaps a swarm of Tyranids, or perhaps other Bolos, or perhaps just as a World Devastator-style area of denial weapon on a planetary scale. You can't just ignore a Bolo driving around on one of the planets you ostensibly control.
Or perhaps even a quorum of Iron Knights, driving various parts of the Bolo, making it perhaps slightly fragmentable, but better able to defend itself from Force-based attacks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16283
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Brings to mind Saberhagen's berserkers, but their mindset is the polar opposite of a Bolo.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Surgo
Cadet
Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| This rather raises the question though, of why you would put a human-level intelligence into a mobile planetary defense weapon. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zarn
Force Spirit
Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 698
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: | | Brings to mind Saberhagen's berserkers, but their mindset is the polar opposite of a Bolo. |
I was perhaps being unclear. I was outlining threats on a scale in which a Bolo might be deployed. A Bolo is clearly silly as an answer to something like a Death Star-scale threat, unless you somehow can manage to get the Bolo onto the planet killer. But it might be an answer to a horde of tyranids, or a swarm of Berserkers, or what have you. There's no question that a Bolo would tend towards the 'Protector' mindset as based on the original source. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14173
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Surgo wrote: | | This rather raises the question though, of why you would put a human-level intelligence into a mobile planetary defense weapon. |
Maybe the planet they were used on, had issues with losing too many lives, so went automated to fight wars. Then they died out, leaving their war machines to continue on fighting..?
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Giant droids are certainly found in Star Wars. Robot ramships and Probot Vipers—IIRC—are both capital-scale droids. Coruscant construction droids were probably larger than a bolo. There are also mobile platforms with capital-scale weaponry, such as the turbolaser pulsor, and the AT-TE and focused turbolaser batteries of the prequels.
_________________
Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
Complete Starship Construction System |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
