My take on light saber combat

[lurker]

Ok, now that my vacation is over, and apparently I have infinitely more free time here at work than I do at my home .... Here you go on my ideas, based on crmcneill's house rules, and with input from crmcneill & Naaman (and others even though they may not have posted on Crm's thread).

Before I hang them, I'll talk through what I amid at when I made them. I don't think the RAW for light saber combat (specifically dueling, not a Jedi/Sith/Force User smacking down a metric ton of droids with their light saber) is truly cinematic in comparison with the movies and books etc. That said, they may be realistic (as realistic as any RPG can be), but I play SW not for complete realism ...

With that, I aimed at making a set of rules that makes LS dueling more cinematic and tried (unsuccessfully) to make them as simple as I can.

Now an example of why ... In my one off game on Monday nights a few weeks ago, I was playing a novice New Order Jadi. I was facing a Dark User (and his master was in a TIE bomber over head preparing for a bomb run if his adapt failed to stop us. A few blaster bolts were fired and deflected, a few more fired by my party members, and I drew my saber (but had no control dice to add to the combat, and only 1 D of sense, but 6 D in LS as a base skill) and got ready for a duel. My party members (those still on the platform) ran to the ship to escape, I traded some "Jedi" banter (to help frustrate the Dark User) and dice were tossed ... I was lucky, got an exploding 6 on my wild dice, and I struck him down ... Great for the game and one of those moments that works out for the good guys in a memorable way. However, NOT a cinematic duel that fits the movies.

In light of that, my rules try to give opportunities for cinematic results in the duel while building to a completion (if the duelist chooses properly and rolls luckily)
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

[lurker]

First, this is only used when dueling; these rules don't come into place in 'normal' combat - A Jedi vs a Storm Trooper or Bounty hunter using ranged attacks against the Jedi. In those instances, it is combat RAW.

### Depending on the situation, the dueling rules can be used when one of those in the fight is not a Jedi, but has melee skills to a level that warrants the combat being more like a duel than RAW. In short when it adds to the story, fits the narrative and approved by the GM.

Now the LS Duel process

Initiative
Those in the duel roll for initiative normally. Either using perception or sense if they have the 'combat sense' force power.
The winner of the initiative chooses if he will attack or defend each round. The one holding initiative can switch whether they are fighting offensively or defensively at the start of every round if they want to and the opponent must react to their decision.
Initiative is re-rolled when the one holding initiative is forced to spend CPs to avoid damage. In re-rolling it may simply go back to the one that had initiative originally
Initiative is completely switched without a roll when the one having initiative is damaged outright in combat.

The player(s) that lost initiative will have to react to the winner's choice of offense or defense. If the winner chooses to fight offensively the looser is forced into fighting defensively & if the winner fights defensively the looser must fight offensively - a willpower check will have to be made to ignore the fighter's choice and fight in a way that is more preferred to the loser's style of fighting - to fight defensively if the initiative holder first chooses defense.

The opposed check roll
Those in the duel will roll their Light saber skill (+ advance form if they have one) , plus their sense dice, add any bonuses as applicable, and compare the result of the roll to the other combatant(s) roll.
The roll must be above a base difficulty of Moderate or the attack/defense automatically fails (No benefit is gained even if your roll is higher than the opponent's). Repeated failures to reach the base difficulty results in progressively worse negative consequences - as narrated by the GM, player etc.

The duelist with the highest roll receives the below benefit/results:

00 - 04, stalemate, no change

05 - 08 , gaining a little advantage, +2 to the next roll

09 - 12 , gaining a larger advantage, +1d to the next roll

13 - 16, pushing back, +1 d on the next roll & the loser must make a Dex check (base difficulty of Difficult ) or be at a - 1 D on their next roll

17 - 20, gaining a tactical advantage, either a +2d on the rolls until initiative is lost, or a change of the combat area that hinders the one holding initiative - if the one that lost initiative receives this result, he can chose to have the advantage or force a reroll of initiative with a 1D bonus to his initiative roll.

21 - 24, minor opening, the winner can roll damage as if they had successfully made a brawl/martial arts attack

25 - 28 , Force opening, the winner can make a free 'force powers' based attack/action.

29 - 32 , potential disarming, the loser must make a dex check ( base difficulty of difficult) or lose their light saber. Additionally, even if the loser maintains control of his/her LS they are at a -1D the next round

33 - 36 , hit, roll light saber damage (without control dice added, but with any additional damage based on modifications to the light saber)

37 + , devastating hit, roll full light saber damage (LS damage, plus modifications, plus control dice)

#### I'm not sure I like the point spread for each level, but it is the best I could think of ###

Wild Dice Effect: As per the GM's preview on wild dice. Additionally, anytime both (or 2 if there are more than 2 opponents are in the duel) roll a 1 on their wild dice, there is a change in the combat area that hinders all duelists (they must all begin using another skill - jumping, climbing, dex for balance, etc, etc, with associated MAP in addition to LS rolls to remain in the duel).

Multiple Opponents: When fighting more than 1 opponent you are at a -2D to your LS combat roll. Only 3 - 4 opponents can fight 1 target at the same time . Initiative rolled as above, whoever wins gets to chose his own offensive defensive type of fighting, those on his side can chose how they want, the looser (or losing side) must react to the winners stance(s), or make the appropriate willpower roll.

Duel Weapon Fighting:. Fighting with 2 weapons is inherently more difficult than fighting with 1, but 2 weapons allows for more opportunities of offense and defensive actions. As such, when fighting with 2 weapons, the LS combat roll(s) are made at - 2 D, but 2 rolls are made, the higher roll is kept and used to compare to the opponent's roll. *** Skill in 2 weapon fighting/ slowly lessens the -2 D penalty.

Nonstandard Light sabers (Light whips, duel bladed light sabers etc): The roll must be above a base difficulty of difficult or the attack/defense automatically fails. Other than the base difficulty increase there is no difference in the LS Dueling process.

Self Limiting the Results of the Roll: player can, before he rolls his LS dueling roll, chose to limit the desired results (from the above chart). In doing so he receives bonus die/dice depending on his desire result- The result can be any result below the desired result, but cannot be above the desired result no matter how high the roll

Disarm +1 D
Force Powers Opening, or Brawl/Marital Arts result +2 D
Tactical Advantage or Push Back +3D

Disarmed: A character that is disarmed in combat is as a severe disadvantage! First if the character had initiative before he was disarmed, he automatically looses it. Next, the character must dodge his opponents attacks using only his dodge skill (plus any benefits for force powers etc). Then, they must somehow retrieve their LS or an applicable replacement - this action results in a MAP because of the requirement to dodge the opponent's attacks. If they are lucky enough to eventually retrieve a weapon, their opponent will maintain initiative.

Multiple Actions in the Duel: *** I haven't cracked this one yet. ***
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

[lurker]

Advance Forms: The advanced forms have specific benefits that impact LS dueling. Additionally, some forms have effects that other elements of combat that are not part of light saber dueling - deflecting &/or redirecting blaster bolts etc - so are not included in the below information. furthermore, the various prerequisites required for the forms are not covered below.

A Jedi with more than 1 Advanced form can switch the form he or she is using at the start of each round. This will not affect their initiative roll, but will change their specific advantages and disadvantages. Also this could catch their opponent unawares (expecting them to continue to use one form) and open themselves to the advantages form a different form that the opponent is not prepared for.


Form I - A mastery of the foundational fundamentals of LS combat. Also, the simplicity and fundamental focus of the form makes it more effective vs multiple opponents.

Advantage, does not receive the -2D penalty to the LS dueling rolls when fighting multiple opponents, an additional + 1D when attempting to disarm an opponent.

Disadvantage - 1D when fighting only 1 opponent



Form II - A mastery of the skills used in dueling an opponent wielding a LS.

Advantage, +1D to all LS dueling rolls vs opponent(s) using a standard LS

Disadvantage, - 1D to all LS dueling rolls vs opponent(s) using a non standard LS variant (or force pike etc), -1D when fighting more opponents than have in Form II dice (whole dice) / 2 i.e 1 -2 D in form II can only duel 1 opponent without penalty, 3 - 4 D and can only duel 2 opponents etc.


Form III - The most passive/defensive of the advanced LS forms. Is especially effective in deflecting blaster bolts etc. However, the defensive nature of the forms limits its offensive opportunities in a LS duel

Advantage, a pip increase for every full dice the practitioner has in dodge to all LS rolls. Also a + 2D to all LS dueling rolls when fighting defensively

Disadvantage - 2D to all LS dueling rolls when fighting offensively. A willpower check is required to keep from being forced to fight on the offensive if they lose the initiative. Also one using this form can never get the benefit of receiving a 'devastating hit' result from above.

Form IV - The most acrobatic Form, heavily emphasizing Jedi abilities to run, jump and spin in phenomenal ways by using the Force to support and aid the Jedi.

Advantage, a pip increase for ever full dice the practitioner has in jumping/or run (whichever is higher). Also, A +1D when attempting a Tactical Advantage or Push Back result

Disadvantage, -2D when in a situation that would hinder the practitioner from using his/her acrobatic skills. Also, must make a stamina check every time a initiative roll is required in the duel (not including the initial roll) the base difficulty is Moderate + 1 for ever previous initiative check.


Form V - Where for III focuses on passive defense even in the process of deflecting blaster bolts, form V focuses on strength and turning another's attack against them even in the process of reflecting a blaster bolt. *** A form V user can have their LS skill be based off STR instead of DEX

Advantage, a pip increase for ever full dice the practitioner has in Brawling/Martial Arts. Also, receives a +1D when both participants of the duel are fighting offensively

Disadvantage, - 1D when forced into a defensive stance. a willpower check is required to keep from being forced to fight on the defensive if they lose the initiative

Form VI deemphasizes the Jedi's reliance on martial skills allowing them additional time to focus on gaining prophecy in knowledge and perception based skills - Bargain, intimidate, con, persuade being the more common - and improve their mastery of various force powers. As such Form VI has the lowest prerequisites and is one of the easiest to learn. However, this hinders the form's combat effectiveness and forces a form VI user to rely more on their various force powers during a duel than any other form.

Advantage, once per ever full D in this form, during the duel, the Jedi can attempt to use one of the above mentioned skills vs their opponents willpower to improve their initiative result. *** Only if this makes since in the specific situation and narration of the duel. Also, the results on the above table are changed by switching 'minor opening' and 'force powers opening'.

Disadvantage, All results above the 'force power opening' - after the switch - result have +5 added to the target numbers.


Form VII - the most advanced form but also the most aggressive form that approaches the edge of the dark side. Additionally, the form VII practitioner must have skills in multiple other advanced forms of LS combat.

Advantage, A pip increase for ever full dice the practitioner has in Brawling/Martial Arts when fighting offensively. A pip increase for every full dice the practitioner has in dodge to all LS rolls when fighting defensively. Does not receive the -2D penalty to the LS dueling rolls when fighting multiple opponents

Disadvantage, Cannot use the benefits from form VII if they have used a form 0 attack in that round or in the previous round. Must make a willpower check at all times to self limit the attack results. Must make a willpower check (at a base difficulty of difficult +1 per ever failed willpower check in the duel) or receive a point(s) of corruption if the opponent is killed in the duel.


Form 0, the initiative holder can chose to make a form 0 'attack' instead of a LS attack during the round. The initiative holder rolls his form 0 attack, plus pips for ever full D in intimidate, con, persuade - whichever is applicable in the narrative. vs the target's willpower. If the attack is successful: the opponent makes all following willpower checks at -1D, Is at -1D - per each loss of form 0 attack - to all rolls in the remainder of the duel . If the form 0 attack fails the one that made the attack is at -1D on all rolls for the next round and initiative is rerolled.

Form 0 it is an advance skill from intimidate, con, or persuade. The character must have 5D in one of those skills, and have at least 3 D - if their attribute is 3D, then must also have 1 pip in the skills above the attribute score - in the other 2 skills.


Duel Weapon Fighting, though not a form in and of itself, A Jedi can train specifically in using 2 weapons (in addition to any other advanced form). This training progressively improves their ability to fight with a weapon in each hand. For ever full D the Jedi has in this skill the penalty for fighting with 2 weapons is dropped by 2 pips


Mastery of multiple forms. A character is arguably a master of their preferred form after they have 4D in that form. However, there are a few LS practitioners that master multiple forms (despite the high CP costs - 38+ to master the form). After a character master 2 (or in very rare occasions 3) forms, he can combined the advantages of the forms &/or counter balance - thus limiting - the disadvantages of the form. In this each specific combinations will vary the result, so the GM and the player must decided how the specific combination effects the overall advantages and disadvantages of the forms.

*** with this HR, the force power of LS combat is removed. However, it is advisable the Character has the Combat Sense power

Also, various force powers can be used prior to starting the duel, or during the duel for a MAP, that will offer additional benefits to the character - these specific benefits are not covered in these rules but will be critical for the Jedi to use in the duel

Finally, the rules are a guideline only. A cleaver GM &/or player can and should modify the rules as needed to support a creative and fun game narrative. Even if not explicitly stated in the rules, the GM &/or player should make cogitative leaps and contextual assumption on the rules as they fit the specific duel/game narrative -
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

[lurker]

Now my critique of my own rules .

I do not have any real play testing of them in a real game. The best I could do is make up a few generic Jedi/Force users with various levels of skills, and roll some dice to simulate a duel ... So, the critiques come from as much feeling as it does for real experience.

That said here you go:


I think they are more complicated than they need to be .... however, I can't figure out how to lessen the complexity without also lessening the cinematic results.



Also, I think there may be too much on my result table. Plus, I'm not sure I like the point spread for the results.

With that, I like Bren's HR's

[url] http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3505 [/url]

but think they are missing some of the cinematic effects (boot to the face, TK force push etc).

With that, sooooo what do you all think? How can I simplify without losing cinematic results?
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

[DougRed4]

Overall I kind of like them, and am tempted to test them out. I like ours (which you can read, mostly under "Lightsabers", here), but yours has some elements I like (such as initiative).
_________________
Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[lurker]

[DougRed4]

There is definitely a precedent (especially with the prequels) for losing one's lightsaber!
_________________
Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green