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denderan marajain
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 213
Location: Vienna, Austria
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 Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:29 pm Post subject: Is the Falcon RAW? |
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For example the basic Hull Code of a YT-Transport is 4D. The falcon has 6D but RAW you can increase by 1D+1 iirc
What is it i do not see?
The Question also affects other Ships where i may have found irregularities |
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aegisflashfire
Commander
Joined: 24 Mar 2014
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Which sources are you using?
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denderan marajain
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 213
Location: Vienna, Austria
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| 2nd Edition Revised Rulebook |
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aegisflashfire
Commander
Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 298
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, this is a little more complicated than I thought it was, because in part, the rules changed and I never noticed one change between 1st and 2nd edition R&E until now.
Once upon a time, you could improve weapons/gear by spending character points the same way you improved your skills. There was no cap on how high you could go, but you did have to pay part of the cost in character points and part of the cost in credits.
Tramp Freighters guide allowed you to have someone else do the work (no character point expenditure) but more cost, more time.
typically hiring someone else involved replacing the system entirely so you paid those costs; it was a replacement rather than an evolutionary path.
2nd edition did away with the 'spend character points' route.
Millenium Falcon's stats came from 1st edition where you could spend character points to improve a ship. and that was really only limited by the skill of the engineer.
I'll have to look closer at the rules to see if there is still a provision for character points somewhere, but I don't see it.
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jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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No, you can't make the Falcon with the 2E rules as written.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10402
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | No, you can't make the Falcon with the 2E rules as written. |
And that's ok. The rules that apply to PC don't have to apply to everything else in the galaxy if the GM doesn't want it too. The game is here to simulate the SW galaxy for the sake of telling new stories starring new characters set in the same general setting. Not everything in the SWU needs to be completely translatable to game terms.
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nuclearwookiee
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| This is kind of a side note, but on the subject of Tramp Freighters ... that book has replacement systems for almost everything, separate from the standard modification rules. So you could buy a new sublight drive and then improve it further, for example. Why do you think it excluded replacements for a ship's hull? Couldn't you just use a stronger material for plating? Or is it more a function of the ship's design and, thus, there is only so much you can do to distribute incoming damage? |
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Zarn
Force Spirit
Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 698
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| nuclearwookiee wrote: | | This is kind of a side note, but on the subject of Tramp Freighters ... that book has replacement systems for almost everything, separate from the standard modification rules. So you could buy a new sublight drive and then improve it further, for example. Why do you think it excluded replacements for a ship's hull? Couldn't you just use a stronger material for plating? Or is it more a function of the ship's design and, thus, there is only so much you can do to distribute incoming damage? |
I'd say that 'replacing' a ship's hull would essentially be the same as ... well, a new ship at that point. The Hull code is a combination of many things - the inherent structural integrity of the design itself, crossbracing, metal fatigue, armor plating, redundant compartments, compartmentalization and other damage mitigation and damage control techniques. Replacing the hull is, essentially, replacing the ship itself - or at least changing its class.
To use a car analogy - armor plating is similar to the body panels of a car. They can be changed and modified - and Booster Terrik even got himself a hotrod red Star Destroyer - but within some limits. The hull code is essentially the car frame itself, and replacing the car frame is ... well, essentially starting a new car with old parts if you try to get a different frame to build your car from.
Obviously, Rule Zero (Have fun!) is important here - but if you start trying to replace the hull code, I'd say the GM would be well within reason to start asking for a few (A) Starship Design / Starship Engineering (can't remember which it was) rolls - and getting something that is unusually sturdy within its class would probably need a friendly Verpine hive and a brilliant Yaka designer specializing in this. So... you'll probably not get too many 6D Hull starfighters with Mon Cal reserve shield dice, at least not easily. |
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nuclearwookiee
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Zarn wrote: | | if you start trying to replace the hull code, I'd say the GM would be well within reason to start asking for a few (A) Starship Design / Starship Engineering (can't remember which it was) rolls |
Yeah, I was thinking this too. The 1d+2 improvement reflects the limit of the Repair skills. Anything beyond that and you're in Engineering territory. Makes sense. |
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denderan marajain
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 213
Location: Vienna, Austria
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| nuclearwookiee wrote: | | Zarn wrote: | | if you start trying to replace the hull code, I'd say the GM would be well within reason to start asking for a few (A) Starship Design / Starship Engineering (can't remember which it was) rolls |
Yeah, I was thinking this too. The 1d+2 improvement reflects the limit of the Repair skills. Anything beyond that and you're in Engineering territory. Makes sense. |
And the Falcon has got a kind of "facelifting"? |
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nuclearwookiee
Lieutenant Commander
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Posts: 171
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Well this isn't RAW at this point, but the only way that I can see to get to a Hull of 6d is to actually re-engineer the YT-1300 with some advanced skill to add at least 0d+1 Hull value, and then use Starship Repair to modify it by 1d+2 for a total of 6d. |
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denderan marajain
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 213
Location: Vienna, Austria
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| nuclearwookiee wrote: | | Well this isn't RAW at this point, but the only way that I can see to get to a Hull of 6d is to actually re-engineer the YT-1300 with some advanced skill to add at least 0d+1 Hull value, and then use Starship Repair to modify it by 1d+2 for a total of 6d. |
That is the same idea i had  |
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2272
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | jmanski wrote: | | No, you can't make the Falcon with the 2E rules as written. |
And that's ok. The rules that apply to PC don't have to apply to everything else in the galaxy if the GM doesn't want it too. The game is here to simulate the SW galaxy for the sake of telling new stories starring new characters set in the same general setting. Not everything in the SWU needs to be completely translatable to game terms. |
I usually agree with your posts, Whill. But in this case I don't. To me all an RPG does is help us quantify and give texture and flavor to what we see on the screen (or read off the page).
So to me the rules do need to apply, not only to everything my PCs encounter, but to every little thing in the galaxy around them.
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jmanski
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Simple solution: don't follow the 1d+2 cap. But anything over that should be massively expensive and extremely difficult to pull off.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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But if you don't follow the 1d+2 max limit on improvements, what is the upper end you DO follow?
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