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lurker
Commander
Joined: 24 Oct 2012
Posts: 423
Location: Oklahoma
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 Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:41 pm Post subject: Force powers used in your games. culling the herd |
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Despite Crmcneill's advice of:
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I started chasing down rabbits on what force powers should be used to update and complete the 'force powers tree'. I've quickly found out that I am way in over my head ...
I'm using the force guide from Gry Sarth that is on the fan made sourse books sticky here. Plus the 'lost knights rpg' wiki, the wookiepedia force powers list, the d6 holocron force powers list, and Ryan's Complete Star Wars Jedi Powers List, as sources for the compiled complet list.
http://www.lostknightsrpg.org/wiki/index.php?title=SWR:Force_Powers
http://www.d6holocron.com/wiki/index.php?title=Force_Powers
http://theguild.tripod.com/starwarsjedipowers.html
I you see any errors in those lists, let me know so I can fix it before I start building the force tree
Also, as there is a metric ton of powers and some of the don't fit the feel of SW & the force, or a more d20 'crunchy' than what is needed in a d6 game, the list needs to be trimed down some
From Crmcneill, Cheshire, & DougeRed, I've got a list thus far of powers that don't fit the feel of SW d6.
Projected Fighting
Force Shot
Force Light
Balistikenesis,
Pyrokinesis,
Phase, - Yes this one is WAY out of what I picture as being a SW force
Cloak,
Detonate,
Masquerade,
Rend,
Phase,
Technometry
I've added
reshape material
Resonate Material
I would argue that some of the other powers are more crunchy (things like Direction orientation, direction sense, Calculate, etc) Instead of being a separate power unto themselves, I think they should just be a generic magnification of having and knowing how to use the force skill they fall under.
Also, they suggested these be included, but need some reworking to fit (and use them with a grain of salt)
Kinetic Combat
Grenade defense
Repulse
Lesser Force Shield
Oh yeah, everyone of them have pointed out that Lightsaber combat, as it is in d6 v2 is broke and needs to be reworked
What would you all add to the list to be dropped or modified?
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Grenade defense imo is not needed as a force power, as grenades are supposed to be one of the great equalizers against force users.
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2286
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 3:00 am Post subject: |
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I think you're off to a good start, lurker!
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green |
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Grenade defense imo is not needed as a force power, as grenades are supposed to be one of the great equalizers against force users. |
This is a pretty fair criticism.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Grenade defense imo is not needed as a force power, as grenades are supposed to be one of the great equalizers against force users. |
Really? my Jedi used to cut out the detonator. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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How? Unless the grenade was timed to go off at the end of the round, to give you an action or two to cut it, how could you?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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The problem I have with the current Force Power system is that it breaks everything down into a thousand different powers that all do one specific thing. I would rather see Powers defined as broadly as possible, then allow Abilities (essentially, Specializations of that Power) to be used to perform specific acts.
For instance, since TK allows characters to manipulate objects at a distance (subject to size and weight limitations, as well as Line-Of-Sight), but does not explicitly mention things like flipping switches, pressing buttons or pulling levers, I would allow a character to, in effect, invent Abilities on the spot by paying a minimal CP cost (since the PC already knows TK and is just using it in a way they haven't before). This way, any TK-related power would be a sub-power under TK, so long as it didn't exceed the size/weight requirements, didn't require the use of Sense or Control, and didn't leave the character's line of sight.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Grenade defense imo is not needed as a force power, as grenades are supposed to be one of the great equalizers against force users. |
Which is really just rules lawyers capitalizing on a WEG oversight; if a Jedi can deflect blaster bolts out of the air with a lightsaber (i.e. have precognitive abilities combined with superhuman reflexes), and there are rules in the RAW allowing characters to throw grenades back (see 2R&E page 92), then there is no reason a Jedi couldn't use TK to toss a grenade away, especially seeing as how TK can move objects with sufficient force and speed that they can be used to attack.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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In the interests of simplifying the references for this discussion, here are links to all the listed powers...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not entirely opposed to all of these powers, although they don't all seem well thought out. For instance, pyrokinesis/cryokinesis, resonate material and reshape material would seem to require that the Jedi be able to perceive the actual molecular structure of the object they are trying to affect. Since such perception is beyond the capabilities of normal human sense, yet within the scope of Farseeing, such powers would be more appropriate for Sense/Alter, instead of just Alter...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Grenade defense imo is not needed as a force power, as grenades are supposed to be one of the great equalizers against force users. |
Which is really just rules lawyers capitalizing on a WEG oversight; if a Jedi can deflect blaster bolts out of the air with a lightsaber (i.e. have precognitive abilities combined with superhuman reflexes), and there are rules in the RAW allowing characters to throw grenades back (see 2R&E page 92), then there is no reason a Jedi couldn't use TK to toss a grenade away, especially seeing as how TK can move objects with sufficient force and speed that they can be used to attack. |
The issue there is by the RAW his LS skill is also a reactionary parry skill, TK use is not on the list of reactionary skills.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | The issue there is by the RAW his LS skill is also a reactionary parry skill, TK use is not on the list of reactionary skills. |
Exactly. WEG gave Jedi the ability to detect attacks before they happen and the ability to deflect objects/energy coming at them at high speed and the ability to move objects with their minds. Ergo, they should be able to telekinetically deflect grenades, but because WEG left telekinesis off the reaction skills list, rules lawyers everywhere go with the presumption that WEG defines Star Wars reality and therefore are vulnerable to grenades.
As I said; rules lawyers capitalizing on a WEG oversight.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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The Brain
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | The issue there is by the RAW his LS skill is also a reactionary parry skill, TK use is not on the list of reactionary skills. |
Exactly. WEG gave Jedi the ability to detect attacks before they happen and the ability to deflect objects/energy coming at them at high speed and the ability to move objects with their minds. Ergo, they should be able to telekinetically deflect grenades, but because WEG left telekinesis off the reaction skills list, rules lawyers everywhere go with the presumption that WEG defines Star Wars reality and therefore are vulnerable to grenades.
As I said; rules lawyers capitalizing on a WEG oversight. |
Yes because jedi need more advantages. Seriously this is a pet peeve of mine I like to call force bloat. We get a constant stream of new force powers that can do whatever. All we need is a choreographed musical number of jedi singing "Anything you can do I can do better!" |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| The Brain wrote: | | Yes because jedi need more advantages. Seriously this is a pet peeve of mine I like to call force bloat. We get a constant stream of new force powers that can do whatever. All we need is a choreographed musical number of jedi singing "Anything you can do I can do better!" |
And a pet peeve of mine is when people try to justify arbitrary restrictions on Jedi, not based on any film evidence, but simply in a ham-handed attempt to provide "game balance". Not that I think Jedi should be over-the-top powerful; I just think the restrictions on Jedi should be smarter and better thought out than what we have been given.
It's not like being able to use TK to toss a grenade away is so far fetched, the pieces are all there and the only thing standing in the way is the fact that WEG forgot to include TK on the list of reaction skills. Plus, unless you play that grenades detonate the second they hit, most grenades will have a delayed fuse (5 seconds is the standard) which technically means they wouldn't detonate until the beginning of the next combat round. The rules actually allow for characters to attempt to throw grenades back, if they can get to them before they detonate.
Now, if you were talking a grenade fired from a launcher, then I would agree that it is outside the scope of TK, since TK is limited to objects in the Jedi's line of sight. The ability to deflect or manipulate bullets or missile weapons in flight would require a Control, Sense & Alter Power, with relatively high difficulty.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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jmanski
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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It all depends on how the GM handles the mechanics of grenades. If they explode the next round there's a chance, but if its the same round I don't think the Jedi should be able to do it.
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