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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:07 pm Post subject: Orbital Flight & Combat Rules |
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In conjunction with my stat write-up for the Torpedo Sphere, I'd like to propose the following changes to facilitate any anti-orbital battles using the RAW.
-While Capital Ship Weaponry lists orbital ranges in the 100-150 kilometer range, the ranges for all planet based anti-orbital weaponry is measured in Space Units. Since there is no direct conversion ratio for SUs to kilometers, I propose that, under these circumstances only, Space Units be equal to 100 kilometers, so that anti-orbital weaponry can convert their ranges to match those of capital ships. This is in no way an endorsement of Space Units being equal to 100 kilometers in general: only in this particular circumstance to create a workable rule.
-While WEG states that a ship is considered in orbit once it reaches 50 kilometers, the real life number for low Earth orbit is around 160 kilometers. As such, I would propose that any starship wishing to remain in orbit at an altitude between 50 and 150 km is required to make at least a Cautious Move every round or they begin to fall out of orbit.
-To facilitate and simplify surface vs. orbital combat, all starships are presumed to have sufficient drive strength to hold in geosynchronous orbit over a target. While WEG states that a ship is considered in orbit once it reaches 50 kilometers, the real life number for low Earth orbit is 160 kilometers. I propose that any starship wishing to go below 150 kilometers receives a +5 terrain difficulty modifier for every 25 kilometers below 150 kilometers it wishes to fly. Ships with an Atmosphere rating may ignore this rule.
-A ship may offset the penalty by making a Move rather than holding in geosynchronous orbit; -5 for Cautious, -10 for Cruising, -15 for Full and -25 for All-Out.
That's what I have for now; it's mostly to facilitate duels between ion cannons and such and capital ships in orbit. I feel there is more there, but I'd like some group input.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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On a related note, there are multiple kinds of shield generators. Two of them are listed in Hideouts & Strongholds, and are capable of protecting entire planets and cost in the hundreds of millions or even billions of credits, while a third listed in the Dark Empire Sourcebook is limited to only 100 square kilometers (but offers a much stronger defense). My question is, at what altitude do you think shields are projected? My feel is that the full planet shields would be in high sub-orbit, while the more localized shield would be no more than a few kilometers off the ground.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:22 am Post subject: |
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I usually say for those planetary spheres, they go to around 40k in the atmosphere.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I usually say for those planetary spheres, they go to around 40k in the atmosphere. |
That's about what I was thinking. I've always thought that the localized one was low enough to the ground that it restricted airspace, which was part of the reason the Battle of Hoth didn't involve starfighters vs. AT-ATs.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10438
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | On a related note, there are multiple kinds of shield generators. Two of them are listed in Hideouts & Strongholds, and are capable of protecting entire planets and cost in the hundreds of millions or even billions of planets |
That seems a rather expensive cost to protect a planet, doesn't it? 8)
| crmcneill wrote: | | I've always thought that the localized one was low enough to the ground that it restricted airspace, which was part of the reason the Battle of Hoth didn't involve starfighters vs. AT-ATs. |
I've never understood that. With the height of an AT-AT, couldn't TIE fighters fly low enough to get under the shield? And I would think that any ship built to withstand space travel could handle the cold of Hoth. And if it is a movement speed thing like the Gungan shields, don't the maneuvering repulsorlifts on TIEs enable the ship to fly slow enough to move through a shield like that?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | That seems a rather expensive cost to protect a planet, doesn't it? 8) |
On the surface, yes, but since you only need one to protect an entire planet, it puts it in a little more perspective. Obviously, not every planet will be able to afford one of these, but it is still a potential option.
IMO, the version utilized by the Alliance at Hoth is the one in the Dark Empire Sourcebook, which only protected the area of the base.
| Quote: | | I've never understood that. With the height of an AT-AT, couldn't TIE fighters fly low enough to get under the shield? And I would think that any ship built to withstand space travel could handle the cold of Hoth. And if it is a movement speed thing like the Gungan shields, don't the maneuvering repulsorlifts on TIEs enable the ship to fly slow enough to move through a shield like that? |
My take on it is tied in with my house rule for applying scale modifiers to maneuverability. While this rule has some kinks to be worked out, the basic idea is that the terrain difficulty for flying a speeder while under the shield would be increased by 4D while flying a starfighter (since starfighters are larger and less maneuverable). The terrain modifier would be situational, as the ground-bound AT-ATs would not have to worry about cramped flight space (but would have other situational terrain problems to deal with).
The concept isn't fully fleshed out, and there are a lot of variables to consider. But if the shield was only a kilometer or two off the ground, that would certainly constitute close quarters for aircraft. IMO, high sub-orbital (40 kilometers or so) is appropriate for a planet shield, but a limited area shield will provide better protection at low altitudes.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Leon The Lion
Commander
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | That seems a rather expensive cost to protect a planet, doesn't it? 8) |
On the surface, yes, but since you only need one to protect an entire planet, it puts it in a little more perspective. Obviously, not every planet will be able to afford one of these, but it is still a potential option. |
You missed Whill's point. Look again carefully at what you actually said in the sentence he quoted. 
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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My bad. I'm still not quite awake yet. Changing now...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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So, seeing as how WEG's idea of when a ship is in orbit clashes with real life, capital ships have to drop to absurdly low altitudes to engage in orbital bombardments. I find it difficult to believe that capital ship weaponry that can "reduce a planet's surface to slag in a matter of hours" can be so degraded just by planetary atmosphere. Should the orbital ranges be changed up to better reflect reality, or is the RAW sufficient for the purposes of a not making ships take so long to go from surface to orbit?
With regards to the original post, I'm thinking of just permanently converting the ranges for surface weaponry over to similar orbital ranges. There are five different weapon systems listed in Hideouts & Strongholds that can hit orbital targets from the surface, with four of them having a range of Atmosphere / Low Orbit (1) / High Orbit (3), and the fifth being 3-20km / Atmosphere / Low Orbit (1). I would suggest converting these ranges to something more standardized, like 30-75/150/300km and 10-25/50/100km.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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There's a blurb somewhere that states that capital ships can bombard from low orbit, IIRC.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | There's a blurb somewhere that states that capital ships can bombard from low orbit, IIRC. |
The atmospheric ranges on most capital ships bear that out. I'm away from home at the moment; if you could find the reference, I would appreciate it.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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BUt the speeds on cap ships seem to only indicate the victory (mk 1) can even enter atmosphere, which would be in 'low orbit' imo.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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In Han Solo's Revenge, a Victory is shown descending to hover around 50-100 meters of a planet's surface, without any apparent difficulty.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | jmanski wrote: | | There's a blurb somewhere that states that capital ships can bombard from low orbit, IIRC. |
The atmospheric ranges on most capital ships bear that out. I'm away from home at the moment; if you could find the reference, I would appreciate it. |
The fluff text for Victory-class Star Destroyer (Victory I) in the Star Wars Sourcebook 2E, p.33:
| Quote: | | Like their younger Imperial-class cousins, Victory-class vessels are designed to perform three main functions: planetary defense, planetary assault and ground-troop support, and ship-to-ship combat. While the Imperial ships emphasize ship-to-ship combat, the Victory Star Destroyer's primary function is planetary defense and attack... One of the most powerful advantages of these flying fortresses is their ability to enter the upper levels of planetary atmospheres, which newer Star Destroyers cannot do. |
This text originates from the original edition of the book, 1987.
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Ral_Brelt
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| There are notations of ISDs bombarding from orbit. Off the top of my head, the intro box set has an ISD bombard with its turbos. The Vic I has an atmo speed which means the thick air...closer than an ISD can get for increased accuracy and to run down ships hoping to take refuge on a planet's atmo. |
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