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Bomb Bays
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:20 pm    Post subject: Bomb Bays Reply with quote

So, an idea has been kicking around in my head lately, and I'm just now getting it fleshed out. I've been working on a WWII bomber analog—ships that would fly in a "box" formation and provide mutual fighter cover with their many defensive guns. They would also soak point defense fire with their many numbers and durable spaceframes, then release their ordinance once they got within range.

I have a suitable ship written up, but I'm wondering on the best way to write the rules for the bomb bay. My intention is that it operate basically as a multi-warhead launcher, but using the cargo bay as a magazine. Where I'm hanging up is that:

1) I like to be consistent, so anything I create for NPC use, I want to allow for player character use should they opt to buy, beg, borrow, or steal it. It's pretty reasonable to assume my players may want to fit one of these things to their ship, and I'm not about to say "no" just because. So it needs to be balanced. That brings us to...

2) A few tons of warheads go a long way in Star Wars, and I don't want it to be overpowered. Even an unguided rocket using an oversized proton torpedo warhead could be quite spectacularly lethal to a lot of enemy war materiel. Now picture a cruise missile fitted with a void-7 seismic charge. Now picture a ship that carries two or four of those attacking the Star Destroyer that's supposed to be protecting your sector moff until the 4th act... yeah.

ammunition costs could become prohibitive, and so far that's worked to prevent the party from spamming proton torpedoes, but you never know...

3) It's gotta be at least somewhat realistic. Bomb racks or rotary launchers like we've seen in the past 70 years are great, but I don't want to say it's a big expensive turreted monstrosity, or that it has to be built into the ship from the ground up and make it inaccessible that way.

So how would you do it? What do you think is fair for a system designed to deploy heavy warheads from a bomb bay?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are they going to be truely bombs (drop and hope you targetted them right) or will they be 'dropping guided' missiles?

If the former, one easy way to limit their use is a real small range, as you need to eyeball the target (like the WW2 bombers did), atmospheric use only. If the latter, then they can be used in space.
In addition, there are some who feel to launch missiles/torps etc you need to drop your particle shields (which would lower hull by 2d while down), so i can easily see these babies as having to have the shield down the entire round while dropping bombs out.
Fatricide (one bomb blowing up setting off the others) would be a big issue then.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Are they going to be truely bombs (drop and hope you targetted them right) or will they be 'dropping guided' missiles?

If the former, one easy way to limit their use is a real small range, as you need to eyeball the target (like the WW2 bombers did), atmospheric use only. If the latter, then they can be used in space.
In addition, there are some who feel to launch missiles/torps etc you need to drop your particle shields (which would lower hull by 2d while down), so i can easily see these babies as having to have the shield down the entire round while dropping bombs out.
Fatricide (one bomb blowing up setting off the others) would be a big issue then.
I was thinking they would be fairly versatile. Guided missiles, unguided rockets, even inertial bombs could all be used in space or atmosphere.

Dropping shields for a round, or at least enough of one that shots could make it through makes some sense. I could stand to see some further limitation, though. (I use house rules for particle shields, so it would just be rolling against the hull dice, no shields.)
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've pictured something like a modified YT-1300 with an elevated center-line cockpit and heavy warhead launch pods mounted on the port and starboard fore-quarters (roughly where the cockpit is on the Millennium Falcon, with a matching unit on the port side) and a bomb bay with a rotary launcher under the cockpit (the B-1 bomber has three different bomb bays, so this isn't unfeasible).

As far as ordnance, I picture something along the lines of a heavy torpedo inflicting 6D or 7D Capital damage (in WWII, air-dropped torpedoes tended to be lighter than their ship launched counterparts), or bomb-spheres as seen in the cross-section of the TIE BOmber.
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griff
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could always replace escape pods with weapon pods, to be sneaky.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, a starbomber wouldn't necessarily have to be ordnance based; it could be built around a powerful, short-range energy weapon, like a disruptor or a plasma cannon...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

griff wrote:
You could always replace escape pods with weapon pods, to be sneaky.


i have had some in game do just that.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

griff wrote:
You could always replace escape pods with weapon pods, to be sneaky.
Once we launched an escape pod stuffed with proton torpedoes at... huh, I don't remember... something big.
crmcneill wrote:
Also, a starbomber wouldn't necessarily have to be ordnance based; it could be built around a powerful, short-range energy weapon, like a disruptor or a plasma cannon...
The power draw for a useful cannon is too high. (I have the rest of the ship statted.)
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallon Kell wrote:
The power draw for a useful cannon is too high. (I have the rest of the ship statted.)

So that's when you play with the cannon stats, chopping range and fire rate in exchange for damage.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
Fallon Kell wrote:
The power draw for a useful cannon is too high. (I have the rest of the ship statted.)

So that's when you play with the cannon stats, chopping range and fire rate in exchange for damage.
Oh, I do that, but I'm using my own SCS with atgxtg's weapon build system, and the drain is still too great.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallon Kell wrote:
crmcneill wrote:
Fallon Kell wrote:
The power draw for a useful cannon is too high. (I have the rest of the ship statted.)

So that's when you play with the cannon stats, chopping range and fire rate in exchange for damage.
Oh, I do that, but I'm using my own SCS with atgxtg's weapon build system, and the drain is still too great.


You clould probably give these things some sort of charge capacitor so they could build up power over a couple of turns.

Oh, BTW, what method are you using to determine power drain?
I have something in the works that might be helpful.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
Fallon Kell wrote:
crmcneill wrote:
Fallon Kell wrote:
The power draw for a useful cannon is too high. (I have the rest of the ship statted.)

So that's when you play with the cannon stats, chopping range and fire rate in exchange for damage.
Oh, I do that, but I'm using my own SCS with atgxtg's weapon build system, and the drain is still too great.


You clould probably give these things some sort of charge capacitor so they could build up power over a couple of turns.

Oh, BTW, what method are you using to determine power drain?
I have something in the works that might be helpful.
I grafted a weapons suite emplacement point value on to your weapon construction system to integrate it with my latest iteration of the Ships of the Galaxy—>Grimace—>Krapou—>Me starship construction and pricing system.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I thought you had some sort of power draw system in place.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
Oh, I thought you had some sort of power draw system in place.
Power draw is most of what constitutes the cost of emplacement points. There's also a little set aside for life support and quartering of gunnery crews.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sinking of the Prince of Wales and the Repulse provides some interesting perspective. It was the first sinking of capital ships that were alert and underway by aircraft. The primary weapon used against the ships by the Japanese were land-based medium bombers dropping either standard dumb bombs or air-dropped anti-ship torpedoes
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