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shootingwomprats
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 Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:20 pm Post subject: Starting Characters |
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I really don't like the specialization rules and I am thinking of removing them from my game. The problem I have with doing that is its a rule, not an optional rule, a real bonafide rule.
I also am wondering about your thoughts of a player who puts 2D into a skill, the specializes, giving him another +1D too whatever skill.
Example: Rodian Dex 4D+2, puts +2D into Blaster for a total of 6D. Then slaps on specialization heavy blasters giving him Blaster 6D+2 and Blaster: Heavy Pistol 7D+2!
Han Solo at Battle of Yavin: Blaster 6D+2, Blaster: Heavy Pistol 9D+1.
Han Solo at Hoth: Blaster 7D, Blaster: Heavy Pistol 10D.
Han Solo at Battle of Endor: Blaster 7D+2, Blaster: Heavy Pistol 10D.
Han is supposed to be at least a sector if not galaxy-wide bad @$$. This guy within four adventures could be his equal.
Seriously thinking of capping skills at character creation at 5D. Thoughts?
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cheshire
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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I usually tell players that 4D is the most they really should have at a beginning character, and I encourage them to focus on diversity rather than min-maxing. I did once have a munchkin (perhaps it would be more accurate to call this player The Munchking) who wanted to play a Verpine with a maxed Tech attribute, maxing one of the technical skills, and then taking a specialization to boot. It was crazy with something to the effect of 9D or 10D at the beginning. I looked at his character sheet, and then I looked at him. Then I looked at his character sheet again and told him that someone with this high of a tech skill to be one of the most B.A. in the galaxy while having no means of dodging, fighting, sneaking, or any other means of protecting himself is VERY likely to wind up in forced labor for someone.
I have only once found a specialization profitable at the beginning level, and that was only to bring a proficiency up to 4D. I think in the end I may have even scrapped the idea because my interpretation of the RAW is that you have to pick three specializations, rather than taking up to three pips and turning them into a specialization each. It was hard to see the value of taking a third specialization that I was likely not to need in a few months time.
Though I haven't made it a hard and fast rule, I think that your 5D cap is a good rule of thumb, and it focuses on one of the things a lot of newbie roleplayers have a hard time understanding: diversity.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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As an aside I typically give my players 21 pips to make their characters. No more than 6 pips to a single skill, specializations cost 1 pip, no more than three specializations.
This is not RAW since is says you put whole "D" into skills. I think this is more for ease and speed up character creation. So, I really don't have an issue with interpreting the rules slightly different. I think the pip system keeps to the "spirit" of the game mechanics.
Could always change default skill checks are + difficulty level and require 1 pip to learn a skill at the base attribute "D".
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lurker
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: |
I usually tell players that 4D is the most they really should have at a beginning character, and I encourage them to focus on diversity rather than min-maxing. I did once have a munchkin (perhaps it would be more accurate to call this player The Munchking) who wanted to play a Verpine with a maxed Tech attribute, maxing one of the technical skills, and then taking a specialization to boot. It was crazy with something to the effect of 9D or 10D at the beginning. I looked at his character sheet, and then I looked at him. Then I looked at his character sheet again and told him that someone with this high of a tech skill to be one of the most B.A. in the galaxy while having no means of dodging, fighting, sneaking, or any other means of protecting himself is VERY likely to wind up in forced labor for someone.
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Ok, I'm by no means a rule expert, but as I just created a character (my first in toooo many years) and having ran in in 2 games thus far. I'll throw my 2 cents in.
I can't imagine a starting character maxing out like that! Good lord, with only 7d to spread around (and spread around is the key) how could anyone think that a character like that would survive more than a game or two at most.
I made a fair character, but focused him purposely on medic and combat, but threw in a few other skills. Even with that I've been sooooo worried and wished I had a little more to spread around to help the team out!
Yeah, a good dodge kept me alive from the infamous friendly fire incident, a fair melee helped too to stun the lead pirate and knock the shock collar control out of his hand. However, I needed a good sneak to get behind the pirate, a good persuasion to get the party to follow me down a quicker & easier path to get back to their ship, a good perception (I know it is a attribute and not a skill but you get the point) to see the Tuber-men at the last second, and my focus of medic to patch up the mechanic.
Now the flip side is I've panicked when I jumped into the freighter's gun seat (being the only one available) and had no skill in them. Same thing with getting behind the ships sensors another time. A horrid roll (3 1s) for my sadly anemic search resulted in me not knowing the Tuber-men were in the area BEFORE it was a last minuet event, etc. And, that is just from 2 games ...
I can't see anyone putting all their eggs into 1 skill (through specialization or other wise) and living. Yeah 10d blaster would let him blast 2 may 3 bad guys right out the gate, but then, with all their friends mad at him, they would focus their fire on him and his dodge of ...3, 4 will end up with him taking at least 2 or 3 blaster bolts and turning into a nice pink mist.
I know it isn't official, but that is an example of why it wouldn't be a good idea
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Jason Scanlon
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:22 am Post subject: |
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You used persuasion on the party? Were they npcs?
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:24 am Post subject: |
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In all fairness I don't remember requiring him to make a persuasion roll to have the group follow him. As a GM, if its social event amongst players, I use roleplaying instead of skills. If I remember correctly, lurker, made the comment he was happy he didn't have to make a roll to get the group he had just met to trust him, or something to that effect. I think he is remembering things incorrectly. It happens when you get older =)
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lurker
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | In all fairness I don't remember requiring him to make a persuasion roll to have the group follow him. As a GM, if its social event amongst players, I use roleplaying instead of skills. If I remember correctly, lurker, made the comment he was happy he didn't have to make a roll to get the group he had just met to trust him, or something to that effect. I think he is remembering things incorrectly. It happens when you get older =) |
That may be true, I could be conffuseded (as my little one likes to say). 
... Now that I think about it, I think I rolled it when I started to try and convince them I wasn't a pirate and that I knew a better way to get back to their ship (I wasn't an official part of the party yet & had already been shot at twice buy them). You saw it was a good roll (compared to all the 1s we had been tossing that night) and just let me finish role-playing it without saying I 'had' to roll it ... yeah that's the ticket 
Either way, it still is a point about needing to be diversified and not just a 1 trick pony
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Yes, perhaps I am the one who is confuseded =)
Here is the example character, after he has changed some stuff around. Not as bad and thank GAWD he did not take the Dodge: blasters he had asked about.
DEX 4D+2: Blaster 6D+2 (heavy blaster +1D), Dodge 5D+2, Melee 5D+2 (knife +1D).
KNO 2D: Streetwise 2D+1.
MEC 2D+1:
PER 3D+1: Search 4D.
STR 3D+1: Brawling 4D.
TEC 2D: Blaster Repair 2D+1 (heavy blaster +1D).
Though I do not like the blaster skill being so high, this character is not that bad. Sorta annoying how combat oriented he is with no apparent thought to a background. Reminds me of a guy who make a "tank" fighter for D&D. All he is concerned about is the amount of damage he can do. This character has that sort of feel to me.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Starting Characters |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | I really don't like the specialization rules and I am thinking of removing them from my game. The problem I have with doing that is its a rule, not an optional rule, a real bonafide rule.
I also am wondering about your thoughts of a player who puts 2D into a skill, the specializes, giving him another +1D too whatever skill.
Example: Rodian Dex 4D+2, puts +2D into Blaster for a total of 6D. Then slaps on specialization heavy blasters giving him Blaster 6D+2 and Blaster: Heavy Pistol 7D+2!
Han Solo at Battle of Yavin: Blaster 6D+2, Blaster: Heavy Pistol 9D+1.
Han Solo at Hoth: Blaster 7D, Blaster: Heavy Pistol 10D.
Han Solo at Battle of Endor: Blaster 7D+2, Blaster: Heavy Pistol 10D.
Han is supposed to be at least a sector if not galaxy-wide bad @$$. This guy within four adventures could be his equal.
Seriously thinking of capping skills at character creation at 5D. Thoughts? |
I've never had an issue myself. One thing, it would take more than 4 adventures for this starting PC to get equal to han (and even though a Rodian may have a MAX dex of 4d+2, i see no template starting that high for dex, so 4d for the bounty hunter is more likely, giving 7d max starting out).
Another thing is its easy for weapons to remove that specialty. Planetary restrictions. All weapons are limited in size/status.
| Quote: | | I can't imagine a starting character maxing out like that! Good lord, with only 7d to spread around (and spread around is the key) how could anyone think that a character like that would survive more than a game or two at most. |
Perhaps he felt no DM would harp on his PC Cause of his weaknesses, and if he did, he is a sucky DM?
| Quote: | | Here is the example character, after he has changed some stuff around. Not as bad and thank GAWD he did not take the Dodge: blasters he had asked about. |
Well he is deficient. His scores only add up to 17d+2 for Attributes, and even with the 3 specialties, he is only at 6d+2 for skill assignments.
Since he has only 2d Knowledge, he is easy to Intimidate (and depending on what rules you use there, he could easily suffer 3-4d penalty cause of it). Same goes for his Capacity in vehicles or ships. No skills of note will cause him to have to rely on others for those areas.
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Jedi Skyler
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| You also have to remember that Han is a bad@$$ for his piloting skills, not just his prowess with a blaster. He's an all-around character, who's been around the galaxy a few times, and has the stats to prove it. This beginning character MIGHT become as proficient as Han Solo in one skill within four adventures, but he's NOT gonna be the equivalent of Han Solo ANYTIME soon...even without the good points garkhal has made. |
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:12 am Post subject: Re: Starting Characters |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | The problem I have with doing that is its a rule, not an optional rule, a real bonafide rule. |
The only hard rule in the rulebook is that no rules are hard rules.
| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Seriously thinking of capping skills at character creation at 5D. Thoughts? |
Done it; it works fine. It all depends on what you and your players are looking to get out of a campaign... I mean, if the most fun thing for your players is rolling a mitt of dice, the cap can limit that, but, if it's story driven fun, it should be pretty cool.
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Centinull
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:45 am Post subject: Re: Starting Characters |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: |
I also am wondering about your thoughts of a player who puts 2D into a skill, the specializes, giving him another +1D too whatever skill.
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I really don't thing that is right.
There is nothing in the specialization rules that says that the specialization dice can take a starting character over the 2D limit.
After comparing books, I think it is better illustrated in 2E, than it is in 2ERE.
In the 2E rulebook the example given is character with 1D in blaster skill adding 1D of Blaster Specialization.
Doing it this way would solve the balance issu you are percieving doing it the other way. |
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Example from SW2E R&E p.28, "Thannik's Mechanical attribute is 2D+2, the extra 2D bumps up his space transports skill to 4D+2." On p.29, "Thannik's final specialization, 1D in space transports: Ghtroc freighter, makes his specialization die code 5D+2.”
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Bigger question is is there an established rule that you Have to assign your dice in full D allocations, or can you just go pipping each and every skill.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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All the exampled during character creation that I have seen show skills being done in D increments. None have the dice broken down into pips or "partials". I think this is just to speed up character generation and make it easier. Only example under the section Creating a Template and then only under the attributes. I think its still within the "spirit" of the game game to allow players who want more control of their character to use the 21 pip system.
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